Advice please! - Best Alpine Harness for 8000m peak - wearing over down suit

Hi Folks,

I would greatly appreciate any insight, comments and thoughts on this please.

I am soon embarking on my first 8000m peak - attempting Manaslu in Nepal.

I'm looking for the best Alpine Harness to use with my RAB Down Suit.

So far I have identified three potential harnesses (no order of preference here):

- Black Diamond - Couloir
- Black Diamond - Alpine Bod
- Singing Rock - Flake

Key Considerations:

Fit (especially over down suit)
Will it compress Down Suit and cause cold spots
Ease of putting on / removing in challenging environment
Size, strength and ease of use for clips and buckles
Weight :)
Belay loop - I notice the BD Couloir doesn't have one - do I really need one? I don't have experience of using a harness without one so perhaps going for something I am a little more familiar with would benefit me (from a psychological perspective).
Gear loops - I am told less is more and that two will suffice - makes sense!

Are there any other key considerations? Am I missing anything?

Can anyone provide insight or a comparison of the above? What has worked well for you or hasn't worked so well with any of these?

Thanks in advance!

Dan Clements

I'll comment on what I can.

The BD couloir does have a belay loop, alpine bod doesn't. Not a big deal either way imo.

The main complaint with the couloir is the damn buckle. It's really a pain in the ass to operate and adjust with gloves on. Aside from that it's a great harness.

Presumably any harness is going to compress the down? I'm not sure how you get a reasonable fit without it compromising loft to some capacity.

I've used a bunch of different ultralight mountaineering harnesses. I'm particular and none of them are perfect. I've used a couple different models with down suits.

First, don't even consider the Couloir based on the buckle alone. If you get it figured out it's still challenging ... and forget about it over a down suit. Annoying as hell.

The Bod is alright and at least the larger buckle is a lot more manageable. Still it's nothing special.

I don't know anything about your third option.

The Camp Blitz is decent but a few details could use some refining.

Hands down best model I've found is the Mammut Zephir Altitude (post corrected from "Zephir Alpine"). The buckle is the simplest, easiest setup I've ever used - that's a huge bonus in my book. The gear loops are located on the bottom of the swami so it doesn't roll down when loaded with hardwear. The extension for the drop seat attachment puts the seams and plastic bits below the critical lower back / pack lumbar support area. The padding they use is just about right on for hanging if you have to spend any time doing so. As light or lighter than the competition. Tennis ball size when packed.

They all will fit ... Just have to buy in a size that allows a properly finished buckle. Extra gear loops can always get clipped off if you are gram counting.

This thing? Do the leg loops open up? That's one of the main advantages of the Couloir/Alpine Bod style.

mammut.ch/INT/en/B2C-Catego…

How is the buckle on the Blitz compared to the Couloir?

Has anyone tried a DMM Super Couloir?

Edit:

Good news! Quick adjust on the new Couloir, some other 2016 options. No true ice clipper slots and goofy gear loops on the Petzl, but I'm gonna get either the new Couloir to replace mine (if only for the buckle), or that CAMP one.

youtube.com/watch?v=n-jPWcS…

With the BD alpine bod you could send it off to somewhere like Runout Customs to get a belay loop installed. Or purchase a big half moon or triangle mallion and leave it on there for use as a belay "loop".

jdejace wrote:This thing? Do the leg loops open up? That's one of the main advantages of the Couloir/Alpine Bod style. mammut.ch/INT/en/B2C-Catego… How is the buckle on the Blitz compared to the Couloir?

I should have said the Zephir Altitude. See below.


The buckle on the Blitz is just a standard double-back style buckle. Still better than the Couloir but not as fast and simple as the Mammut.

It does look like BD has made some good improvements to the Couloir. I'm much more likely to use one now except I'm a convert to the buckle on the Mammut. I can put the thing on while I'm wearing mittens and a huge puffy suit or jacket. Haven't found any others I can do that with. No webbing to thread through a buckle at all...just clip and tighten.

jdejace -
My main complaint with the Camp Blitz is the placement of the gear loops at the top of the swami combined with the soft material used in the swami and leg loops themselves. While it makes for a very light and pack able harness, the waist will roll down as soon as it is loaded with anything on the gear loops. After a few months of use the material will roll up (under your pack hip belt) whether there is anything loading the loops or not.

jfs wrote: I should have said the Zephir Altitude.

Thanks, that one is promising as well! Looks like a similar buckle mechanism to the new CAMP in the video.

The BD Couloir (2015 and prior) buckle will have you wanting to launch yourself off the summit, in a word the buckle sucks. With that said the new BD Couloir 2016 Harness (not sure if it is out yet but it is coming) finally changed to a speed buckle. So if you go the BD route make sure you get your hands on the 2016 model.

I had the pleasure of playing with the new Petzl Altitude harness last week and it is fantastic. I have one on order and will be here next week. I have been using the Petzl Sitta harness for about a year and it's a dream.

https://www.petzl.com/LU/en/Sport/Harnesses/ALTITUDE#.V4LTKJMrKEI

Did you see USED Hrns's & Mntrng, gear

Dan,

Don't overthink this. When I climbed Manaslu four years ago I used an old, beat up Petzl Adjama that I've owned for many years and used it for canyoneering in Utah.

Fit (especially over down suit) any loose fitting harness will do. get a size larger than your regular climbing harness
Will it compress Down Suit and cause cold spots the majority of the time you'll be moving and clipping to a fixed rope and don't need your harness to be tightly fitted so you don't have to worry much about the harness compressing the downsuit. there are a few times where you'll need to rappel but that's maybe 3-4 rappels.
Ease of putting on / removing in challenging environment You are only putting in on and take it off once a day. forget about taking off your harness and pooping on your acclimatization rotation and summit push unless you are ok with pulling down your pants with 50 climbers watching you. you aren't going to stray too far from the fixed line
Size, strength and ease of use for clips and buckles
Weight :) any standard harness is strong enough. don't get anything where you have to doubleback. get a dummy proof buckle
Belay loop - I notice the BD Couloir doesn't have one - do I really need one? I don't have experience of using a harness without one so perhaps going for something I am a little more familiar with would benefit me (from a psychological perspective). You can use a locking biner to attach the harness and leg loop and rappel off that
Gear loops - I am told less is more and that two will suffice - makes sense! you don't need a lot but a couple to clip your jumar when not using like on rappel

Good luck!

Kevin

I will concur with the Zephir Altitude recommendation. I haven't climbed at 8000m or with a down suit but that's the harness that I've used for high-ish altitude climbing.

Good luck!

Thanks folks - would love to thank everyone independently but frankly i am knackered after a long day and cannot! But I really appreciate all the replies.

BD Couloir 2016 is on the list - came across a review and some images today and it looks tip top so thanks for that. I've pinged BD and asked them when I can get my mitts (literally!) on one!!! Hopefully ahead of time!!!

Amazingly the Mammut Altitude Harness is actually in stock at a store here in Singapore - unbelievable - we usually have to chase half way or more around the world to find something - so I intend to go check it out.

Thanks again folks - appreciate the thoughts and positive vibes!!!

Anyone know if BD plan to release a model that makes you a cup of tea in bed in the morning? That would be the one!

Cheers.

Dan

Just spoke to the guys at BD - sounds like the BD Couloir 2016 will be released early Autumn/Fall just after I leave - bummed on that but gonna check out the Mammut and other options.

Choucas harness, by Blue Ice, from Chamonix.
Main body of the harness is constructed 100% from Dyneema®
2 Gear loops
2 Ice screw keepers
Adjustable leg loops
Glove-friendly buckles
Quick release leg loops
Full-strength belay loop
Variable-width waist belt
2 slots for ice screw holders

Lhotsa wrote:Choucas harness, by Blue Ice, from Chamonix. Main body of the harness is constructed 100% from Dyneema® 2 Gear loops 2 Ice screw keepers Adjustable leg loops Glove-friendly buckles Quick release leg loops Full-strength belay loop Variable-width waist belt 2 slots for ice screw holders

Thank you - looks like another interesting, well thought out product worth considering.

I had posted a question in the Mountaineering forum around December 2015 asking about the Choucas harness. Something made me decide against it, maybe want of 4 gear loops for technical mixed alpine. No experience here on 8k or with full down suit.

That Petzl doesn't appear to have any gear loops or ice keeper loops. Did I miss something? Got all excited! Edit: gear loops described in the wmr video above. Excited again!

The Couloir is flimsy (minimal), and for a similar weight you can have more options. Eager to see the 2016 model, the old one works but could be easier to use with gloves as stated above.

I just got the Mammut Togir Click and it seems really well made. Is this the successor to the Zephir Altitude? I wasn't able to find the ZA on sale in my size. Make sure you try on the harness all suited up before buying if possible. They only have the one top buckle, so they don't balance well if you get the wrong size.

Safe journey!

Edit: link to that older thread:
mountainproject.com/v/blue-…

Faulted Geologist wrote:I had posted a question in the Mountaineering forum around December 2015 asking about the Choucas harness. Something made me decide against it, maybe want of 4 gear loops for technical mixed alpine. No experience here on 8k or with full down suit. That Petzl doesn't appear to have any gear loops or ice keeper loops. Did I miss something? Got all excited! Edit: gear loops described in the wmr video above. Excited again! The Couloir is flimsy (minimal), and for a similar weight you can have more options. Eager to see the 2016 model, the old one works but could be easier to use with gloves as stated above. I just got the Mammut Togir Click and it seems really well made. Is this the successor to the Zephir Altitude? I wasn't able to find the ZA on sale in my size. Make sure you try on the harness all suited up before buying if possible. They only have the one top buckle, so they don't balance well if you get the wrong size. Safe journey! Edit: link to that older thread: mountainproject.com/v/blue-…

The Togir Click is not the successor to the Zephir. The Zephir is half the weight of the Togir and more oriented to glacier, skimo, expedition high altitude travel whereas the Togir is a beefier all around harness. Two different harnesses for different objectives. BTW used and played around with the Zephir harness as well and it's really nice.

Does anyone have experience with the Misty Mountain Summit as an alpine harness?

It looks a bit beefier than some of the other options, but still weighs in at ~10 oz (~280 g)

I know folks RAVE about the Caddilac...

Rich Murray wrote:Does anyone have experience with the Misty Mountain Summit as an alpine harness? It looks a bit beefier than some of the other options, but still weighs in at ~10 oz (~280 g) I know folks RAVE about the Caddilac...

I used the Misty Summit for a trip to Cerro Mercedario last year. The nice thing is that the leg loops can drop off quickly leaving you in just the hip-strap; making those quick bathroom breaks a lot more manageable, also makes it easy to get in and out of with double boots and crampons.

Jonathan Dull wrote: I used the Misty Summit for a trip to Cerro Mercedario last year. The nice thing is that the leg loops can drop off quickly leaving you in just the hip-strap; making those quick bathroom breaks a lot more manageable, also makes it easy to get in and out of with double boots and crampons.

Thanks Jonathan,

Yeah, dropping the leg loops seems to be the advantage of the "Diaper" harnesses.

Did you find that it packed-down well in your pack when you weren't using it?

Was it easy to work the buckles, etc. with gloves on?

How was the hip belt padding? Enough-but-not-too-much?

Did you miss not having a belay loop?