C4 vs X4 cam's in overlapping sizes

Right now my rack of cam's consists of BD C4's in the 0.5 - 4 range, with a couple doubles. I'm intending to flesh out the lower sizes later this year and am considering getting X4's instead of C4's.

All the reviews I see are from when the X4's first came out, and most claim they prefer the X4's in these sizes. I've never had the opportunity to handle an X4.

Has anyone found they prefer the C4's, and is there a situation when you'd rather have a C4 than an X4?

I have the c4s down to .3 and I like them better than my x4s in that size. Better feel placing(imo), smoother trigger action & seem to clean easier. YMMV

Edit: there are times however where the x4 def. is the better cam for the situation ...horizontal placements for one

Do your smaller sizes have to be Black Diamond? I like the Mastercams.

Should check out the previous model of master cams for overlapping and sizes below .5. Bomber placements and I got mine for around $44 a cam. Had the smaller sized C4's but quickly found the master cam to be my go to.

0.3 C4 is a double axle design, which allows for passive placements since it can't invert. Not a feature I've really ever made use of, but I guess it could be considered an advantage of the C4 over the X4.

I second that. I find myself reaching for my .3 C4 more often than the .3 X4. I find that given sufficient space, I feel more secure on the wider lobe width of the C4 than the X4. However, there have been placements where the X4's narrow headwith in a tighter placement was a life saver.

I have C4s and X4s. I carry both usually.

I find the .3 and 4. X4s fit in spots the C4s don't. The .75 X4 I carry could probably be a C4. I wouldn't notice. I like X4s for horizontal placements. I place a C4 at the crux before I place X4 because I think the C4s are stronger and more durable.

They are rated a bit higher, but not to a degree that makes that big of a difference IMO. I like X4s for everything under 0.75...have C4/X4 doubles for 0.5 and vastly prefer the flexible stem of the X4. Flexible stems are much better IMO for smaller pieces because they don't get as badly kinked in horizontals and walk less (an X4 will bend when the rope runs through it, C4 will rotate).

Also, obligatory mention: check out the Totem Basics.

Thanks for the input so far. Seems like the main advantage over the C4 is the narrower head, but if you don't need that maybe choose C4 for strength/durability?

Is the kinking I've read about on the X4's basically a non-issue?

As for mastercam's, I'm not opposed, but only have budget for two cam's right now. I'd need three to cover the same range of the BD's. I'm using a "dividend" gift card from the REI Mastercard (they gave me a gift card because the instant credit option wasn't working), plus a gift card from promotion for making a purchase with said card. So that also rules out the used market.

I have a couple X4s that don't have a straight stem any more. I doubt this reduces strength but I say this at my desk. Out at the cliff I wonder if that bent cam will hold my fat ass.

I have x4s for everything below 0.5. For 0.5 I have one c4 and one x4. My main gripe with x4s is, in my experience, they tend to walk easier. I think this is due to the springy stem.

I recently had to replace my 0.5 c4 and i did so with another c4 (as opposed to getting another x4).

I do like x4s and am happy to place them. I guess my point is, in the larger x4 sizes, I prefer the c4s.

Also, although I am newer to aiding (only been doing it for about a year), I like the soft stem of the x4s more than the c4s.

For some reason, I find myself getting the .3 X4 overcammed a lot. I don't know why, it doesn't happen to any other cams, but in the past two weeks I've either placed it a bit foolishly and immediately jammed it or had it walk to an almost irrecoverable position three times. Could just be coincidence, but now I find myself going for the C4 in that size instead. I do like the other X4's.

The 0.3 C4 and 0.3 X4 do not have the same range. The X4 is about 1/2 or 1/3 of a size smaller. I like to have one of each, actually. Sometimes the X4 fits snugly where the C4 won't go, and sometimes the C4 is only half expanded where an X4 would be tipped out. C4 is double axle and passively strong, X4 is not.

0.4 and larger, the ranges are the same. The head of the 0.4 X4 is significantly narrower than the C4, however, so it'll fit in some spots where the C4 won't. I'm not sure if that's still true at 0.5; if so, it's much less. And the 0.75s seem very comparable except for stem flexibility.

I have a .4 X4 that I am not a fan of. I plan on replacing it with a totem basic. Anyone interested in buying it? Good condition, placed <10 times, never fallen on. I'd let it go for $55 shipped.

The x4 is better up to .5 (so everything but the .75). Past the .5, the heads become too heavy for the stems and get floppy. The x4s seem to fit in narrower placements. The armored cable makes the x4s better for horizontal placements.

I've climbed with both in .5 and under sizes. I find myself placing the X4 more often as much of the granite I climb is fairly irregular. I've had many placements where the wider head of the C4 resulted in uneven lobes. I also prefer a flexible stem for the smaller sizes.

That being said, I only bought small BD cams because I only had to pay wholesale, but I paid retail to go with totems for my doubles. They fill the overlap in X4 sizes well.

If I didn't get the X4s at cost my other set of finger to micro would either be totem basics or mastercams.

I'd go with a totem in that size, rather than a C4 or X4. Granted the price tag isn't too friendly but I've really come to like the one totem cam I was able to find used (Green .75 size). I feel a lot better overcamming it when I'm scared as the lobe design makes it difficult to fix a cam, in addition to the fexible stem effectively mitigating walking.

Although it's purely anecdotal, the totem feels a lot more "bomber" than a C4 when climbing above it. Plus, the features around here tend to be a bit more shallow, awkward, and thought-provoking than your typically nice granite/Creek splitter, so the narrow head often helps in less-than-obvious placements.

I like my x4s in the smaller sizes. As said above .5 and down. the .4 and .5 are no brainers, but the .3 becomes a debate because of the lack of cam stops. Personally I wouldn't want the .3 c4 because the .3 x4 gets smaller its more of the next true size down, the c4 is too close in size to the .4 imo. The blue metolius is almost the exact same size as the .3 x4 and its blue to boot! (mastercams have cam stops) I just got the purple mastercam for that reason instead of the .2 x4. Already have the .3 so too late for me lol. There where a few threads with pics of people umbrellaing their .3 x4. Also if you get an x4 .2 and a c4 .3 you will have a gap in your range unless you get a c3 or something

Also it can matter where you climb. I climb mostly on granite so the narrow head is great for small pods ect. If you climb on mostly softer rock like Moab sandstone you may want the wider head of the c4

Green Totem basic fills in that gap really nicely.

IF BAD PLACEMENT YERRR GONNA DIE!!!!!

I love my 0.1 & 0.2 X4s. The 0.3 is sometimes nice to have (I like one C4 & one X4). I will never buy the 0.5 or 0.75 again because the stem is too floppy making them harder to place/clean and the stems get kinked very easily.