Basic 2-person glacier rig advice

I am finally getting on Rainier (weather permitting) in early June. My partner and I are decent ice climbers, real fit, decent BC skiers (we are not skiing Rainier this trip, though), and should generally jog up no problem if the weather holds. If it doesn’t look good, we are going fishing instead of having a potential epic. If it surprises us – we are from the Northeast and climb in total crap all the time. I’m good with blind compass/map navigation, and we’ll have some kind of GPS backup running to record our track and let us track-back in a whiteout. So I’m comfortable going up into huge, complicated terrain as long as things look good, knowing I can get us back out fast if it all goes to shit unexpectedly.

FYI, route is undecided, mostly due to the new permit system. We are looking for Type-I fun, so nothing on the North side this trip – just a romp up Emmons, DC/ID, Kautz Glaicer/Cleaver, Fuhrer, etc. Maybe even Success, in which case this is kinda moot.

But, we’ve never been on a glacier. We’ve practiced a bit in the past when planning trips that fell through, but I want to re-evaluate my thoughts. Most of what I read on the topic seems a lot like Avy training… all focused on getting out of a bad situation that you shouldn’t have gotten into in the first place. I see a ton of teams rigged up with all kinds of bondage gear, but not being real careful – just like I see dudes dropping onto scary avy slopes without digging a pit, because they are wearing an airbag and beacon.

So, my gut feeling is that we need a KISS rig that we can get familiar with quickly, but mostly need to be heads-up: follow tracks when available, bring an avy probe or pole and probe our way across glaciers, keep the rope tight, be ready to arrest, etc. We also will be light: under 40lb on our backs to high camp, and real light on the summit run. Heavier climber will stay uphill (we are 150lb and 180lb).

So, we are being careful, but someone can still fall. With only two climbers, they might end up down in a hole pretty good. We will only have basic tools/axes unless we end up on the Kautz routes, but are pretty agile and strong. If we are rigged in a way to get our packs off easily, we can probably climb out unless it’s rotten and overhanging. If that fails, it’ll be ascending time, and the rig comes into play.

I have a 125’ chunk of 9.2 (Sterling Nano), and a handful of aid/simul gear. Mini-Trax, ascenders, prussiks, a Ropeman (mk 2), Tiblocs, I think he has a Cinch and some other pulley/ascender, too. My thought is to have the pack clipped in to the rope-end with some decent slack, so we drop it onto the rope (after the one holding the fall is ready!!!). Then, have a Mini-Traxion/Ropeman and/or Prussik(s) ready to clip a sling to and start climbing. Also, each climber will have a 19cm screw and one pre-rigged picket… should I ditch the screw for those routes in June, after a pretty fat winter?

How about pulling the other climber out? I’m very comfortable whipping up a z-rig or other pulley system, with or without without pullies. I might bring a mini-trax to double as my ascender and pulley. He’s bigger than me, so if I really needed to get him up, I’d need the pulley and rig. He is a freaking beast, and I’m pretty light. A simple ‘biner only 2:1 should let him pull me up. Thoughts on this? How remote a possibility is a bad fall that leaves a climber hanging, effed up and in need of fast help from their partner?

Obviously it’s up to me to get the rig figured out and practice to make sure it works in all cases – we will do so. I’m just soliciting for some opinions on clever simple rigs given my gear, so I don’t spend forever over-complicating things.

Also, beacons in June? I am kinda thinking that a big wet June slide is pretty unsurvivable low odds/high consequence sort of thing, and staying the hell out of avy paths is all we can really do anyway. At the moment I’m planning on one probe (for the leader to check for cracks) and one shovel (for possible campsite/anchor work).

Thanks!
-Phil

The these suggestions with a grain of salt, but:

-I doubt your partner will be able to haul with a 2:1, even if you are light. There is a lot of friction between rope drag and carabiner "pulleys." Even at 3:1, a 1-man haul isn't easy. I recommend you try this one out.

-I don't carry fancy ascenders on a glacier. If I need to climb the rope out, I plan on doing it with a prussic (or your choice of friction knot) or a tibloc. Yeah, it sucks, but it's not something you should be doing frequently. Definitely set your ascending system up once (in a tree or whatever) so you know how it works.

-I, personally, would not carry a beacon, probe, and shovel for both people in June. With avy gear I figure it's all or nothing, so I might carry 1 shovel for the team (depending on the route) and that's it. Snow should be pretty stable up there.

With 2-man teams, we generally assume (and hope) that the fallen climber will climb or ascend out, therefore only requiring an anchor. Setting up a haul is a last resort, and hopefully it doesn't come to that. Build a simple 3:1 and 5:1 haul on the floor and figure out the minimum amount of gear you need to do it.

I climbed the Emmons - Winthrop on a team of 2 several years back. There was at least the same weight difference between us as you have stated. Here is what we did.

After a lot of research, we decided on a drop loop system with butterfly knots between the climbers to minimize drag and help with self arrest in the event of a fall. Yes it means each climber has to carry enough extra rope to lower the drop loop into the crevasse and set up a haul (your 125 ft rope would allow about 25 ft between climbers). Yes it makes self rescue more difficult because you need to work around the butterfly knots. But we felt this was the safest system for a rope team of 2 to ensure one of us would remain on the glacier. The butterfly knots can almost arrest the fall on their own as long as the route is not pure ice.

I won't go into all of the technical details of the drop loop system since you can find those easily on line, including "how to" videos. You need to practice - in the dark - wearing gloves before the trip. We built in an extra day to practice on the snow at camp as well. Like Kyle said - 3:1 is the minimum. It wouldn't add much weight to carry another prussik and pulley to add more hauling power, just make sure you have enough rope.

There are shovels staged for camp building at Muir and Schurman. You won't need to carry a shovel if camping there. We climbed in July and did not wear beacons. We brought wands.

Believe me - unless you are fully acclimitized you will not be "jogging up" to 14K, regardless of your level of fitness. We came from NYS and my partner had a pretty good case of AMS. I live at 7300 ft now and am above 12K about once a week - I wish that I could acclimatize like this before I climbed Rainier.

Thanks, all. We decided on a 60m rope and a drop-loop system. This leaves more like 40-50 feet between us, including knots in the rope, and tons of cord to work with. The knots also provide a really easy spot to rig a haul without going over the lip.

We rigged it up and practiced. It became apparent that the Mini-Traxion was going to be worth the weight, since it's so versatile:

1) It can be pre-rigged to ascend, but locked open so it won't catch the fall.
2) By dropping the pack and/or coils on the rope to weight it, the MT in waist position doesn't require any tending, making it easy to ascend with.
3) The pulley adds a lot of efficiency to a haul system.

We will each have a Mini-Traxion or Micro-Traxion, Ropeman or Tibloc, and a prussik cord, so we can rig just about anything, but weight is pretty minimal. We also messed around and found what 'biners work best with each device. Also, it became obvious that wire-gate 'biners without hooded noses are going to be a pain in the dick when trying to situate oneself whilst hanging in a hole, so those all got tossed in favor of snag-free noses.

Ascending the rope with knots is kind of a pain - slide up to the knot, leap-frog with the top Tibloc or Ropeman (much easier to re-rig past the knot than a Prussik), then hang/stand on that while we loosen the knot and let it run through the MT. Or, un-clip the MT and put it above the knot, if the knot is pulled too hard or is frozen.

Sounds like a good system.

I think we tied a butterfly knot about every 10 feet on the rope between us.

Good point about making sure the biner is large enough so the tibloc will grip without tearing the rope sheath. We learned that during practice as well. Ideally a static rope makes hauling easier but we didn't have one.

I have a permit for Emmons-Winthrop route at the end of June and I hope to revive this thread to ask some questions so I can dial in our parties equipment and training.

We have a party of 7 and will likely split teams up into teams of 2, 2, and 3 to be nimble and fast. we have a 2-day permit.  We all have significant mountaineering experience, some climbing and rigging experience but very little glacier travel experience. We are based in Southern California so we plan to do training in the Sierras or even on San Gorgonio.  2 people in our group attempted Rainier on the DC route but turned back because of weather.

Between all of us we already have some gear and I'm hoping to use as much as possible to minimize an all-out buying spree.  We have some 8mm dry ropes in 30 m length.  Would that be enough length on Rainier based on the crevasse size for the two-person teams, using a drop loop system?  It would not be that much rope between the climbers,  maybe 30 ft? 

A 30 m rope is too short for a drop loop system. Get longer ropes and go up as a team of 3 and 4 so to skip the drop loop system. But if you want to use it:

https://www.mountaineers.org/locations-lodges/tacoma-branch/committees/tacoma-climbing-committee/tacoma-climbing-subcommittee-intermediate/course-templates/intermediate-glacier-travel-module-tacoma/course-materials/6-1-drop-loop-hauling-system

 Yes, we might switch to a team of 3 or 4.

Dharma Bum wrote: Good point about making sure the biner is large enough so the tibloc will grip without tearing the rope sheath. 

Does anyone know if the Petzl Sm'd will shred the rope or if it functions well with the Tibloc? They market it as a companion for the device since it accepts a keeper cord. I guess the bigger question is do I need to use a round stock biner to prevent shredding? I'd test it myself if I but obviously I dont want to ruin my rope.

If there's a significant weight difference between you, put the heavier guy uphill.