Using a clove hitch

I have to very bomber trees, I use a backed up bowline on the one tree or leg if you will, I double figure 8 masterpoints and go to the next tree I used a piece of webbing with a wrap 3 pull 2 and put a locking biner on now I use a clove hitch because of how relatively easy it is to equalize the 2 legs. Now my question is I always have a decent enough tail left do you guys back your clove hitch up and if so with what I haven't but just a extra step that would only a few seconds. I've always used figure 8 on a bight and it take a a little longer to equalize than the clove hitch

No harm to back it up (my preference would be a double fish), and it only takes a few more seconds, but a clove with a good tail would not worry me.

I would recommend tying off the two anchor arms first and then tying your master point knot.

I usually make a figure 8 on a bight and clip it through the same carabiner that the clove is on

I like it thanks guys!!! I mean I have the material and all the time in the world mind as well for a piece of mind

Good question. Here is my logic. A well dressed (tied) clove hitch with sufficient tail will not slip, and I wouldn't worry about not backing it up. However, in order for me to feel safe about not backing up a clove hitch, I need there to be sufficient tail. In order to have sufficient tail, I always have enough tail to tie a an overhand backup, so I always do. In some cases, like if I'm using a carabiner that is very small, I may chose not to back up my clove.

Max is correct: a well-tied CH will slip just a couple rope diameters as it tightens. It will not travel off the tail. And even if it were to start doing that - which it won't - you have two legs of your anchor, so the other leg would merely assume more of the load.

Having said all that... I spend time with lots of folks who blow a fuse if they see a 4 foot tail on a clove hitch. "Close the system!!" they yell. So I do; it's easier than trying to inform them of CH behavior.

BigFeet - the OP's process avoids the reach over the edge that your suggestion often entails, and is AFAIK what AMGA instructors are teaching these days.

Any reason not to just friction wrap the second tree? Seems even simpler and efficient and just as easy to equalize.

Gunkiemike wrote: BigFeet - the OP's process avoids the reach over the edge that your suggestion often entails, and is AFAIK what AMGA instructors are teaching these days.

Something new to me. What is the reasoning for this Mike?

Would the anchor builder have to go to the edge to inspect where the adjusted master point is hanging? If not in a correct orientation the builder would have to go back to make an adjustment and check the knot again?

I can understand keeping away from the edge as much as possible to be on the safe side, but it would seem as though there would be too many back and forth adjustment steps involved.

Is this to keep the builder not having to anchor himself at the edge?

I guess I should look into this and determine for myself.

Yeah. I took an anchors course last year taught by an AMGA guide who had us first create a fixed point (bowline on a tree), emergency (alpine butterfly to go on direct in case you slip), masterpoint (BFK), then adjustable clove hitch on second anchor. With this method, you just tie the BFK with a decent amount of slack in the system and hang the rope off the edge, no need to worry about tying a figure 8 over the edge and you never even have to get close to the edge. The biggest cause of TRing accidents is people falling while trying to setup the masterpoint; this approach eliminates this possibility AND has you on direct to a bomber anchor. It also takes about 2 min to setup if solid natural anchors are available. The only downside is that this method only really works well with 2 legs, but you can always build a cordellette anchor and use that as your second leg if a tree/Boulder isn't available.

As far as TS's question: I usually back up my clove hitches with a figure 8 on a bight clipped to the same biner as pbrown said, but only if somebody bitches...never seen a clove slip and if anything, they get ridiculously tight under load. Don't worry about equalizing the 8; the clove just needs to be equalized to your masterpoint. The 8 is just a backup.

BigFeet wrote: Something new to me. What is the reasoning for this Mike? Would the anchor builder have to go to the edge to inspect where the adjusted master point is hanging? If not in a correct orientation the builder would have to go back to make an adjustment and check the knot again? I can understand keeping away from the edge as much as possible to be on the safe side, but it would seem as though there would be too many back and forth adjustment steps involved. Is this to keep the builder not having to anchor himself at the edge? I guess I should look into this and determine for myself.

Yea, you've basically described it. The person setting up the TR anchor needs either to be at the edge to locate the BFK (powerpoint knot) appropriately, or to guess where to put it, only to have to retie it if they mis-judge. With the OP's process, you fix one leg, put the rope in the BFK (so it puts some weight on it) and pulls up Leg Two until they feel the weight, and clove hitches it. A tensionless hitch, as jkw suggests, takes a bit longer to adjust than a clove hitch (we're splitting hairs here though).

The whole thing makes more sense when you're setting up a TR on a sloping cliff edge where the powerpoint needs to be many feet down out of your reach.

Thanks, guys.

Yeah, I can see the concept.

While checking everything, (where the master point knot is resting, how the rope is running, etc.) I fInd the way I described nice because I'm already at where I want to check. It is the way I was taught, but things change.

I'll try it out. It just feels like something to have to fiddle with when you could otherwise set and go.

When done correctly, it requires less fiddling than the method you described. You set the master point where you want it, weighted to the first arm, then equalize with the second. Only fiddling you would have to do is adjusting the clove hitch, which is nothing. Only difference is...you're tying your masterpoint from the safety of wherever the &$@ you want as opposed to leaning out over the edge trying to maintain equalization.

I wouldn't worry about a clove slipping if there is sufficient tail. But it takes 10 seconds to a tie an overhand at the end of the tail. Why wouldn't you?

If you're worried about slipping while setting up a TR, why wouldn't you use the other end of the rope to tie in with a fig 8 on a bight? Clip that to your harness if a retrace takes to long. Then you can make things perfect for your TR. You could even use an autoblock to control the length of your personal anchor.

Maybe I'm complicating my safety system to make building the anchor easier. But I'm a sucker for Simple anchors.

Thanks for the feedback i definitely feel safer with the hitch backed up and it does only take a second I was mainly wondering what you guys used and how. I like the fig 8 clipped to the biner. I was just wondering what you guys suggested as common practice