Becoming a Mountain Guide

Hello all!
I am not sure if these would be the correct place to post this but I'll give it a shot and the mods can move if necessary.

Getting down to business, I just recently got out of the military after ten years and have been attending school and have found it not that appealing...Nevertheless, I always loved the outdoors and climbing when I could. So, I thought to myself, why not try and become a guide of some sorts. After browsing the internet I came across the American Alpine Institutes
Mountaineering Instructor Professional Training Program and thought it looked reasonable to my untrained eye. (Which can be found here, alpineinstitute.com/catalog…)

Getting down to brass tax;
1. Has anybody completed this program or know somebody that has?
a. Would you/them recommend this program?
b. Did you/them have reasonable job opportunities once the program was complete?
2. Is this a viable route to becoming a guide?

I am sure I will think of more questions in the near future, but I have to get to class, thanks in advance for your time and help.

Jon

Hi Jon,

The AAI training program probably does a good job prepping you for working with folks in the mountains, but be aware---that is an in-house program and not recognized by the American Mountain Guides Association or the international community. You wouldn't, for example, be able to take that program and use it as a credential to guide in Canada, Europe, or New Zealand.

The only credentials provided in the US that are recognized outside the US are via the American Mountain Guides Association (AMGA). Complete all three disciplines in the AMGA guide track and you earn an international license through the Int'l Federation of Mountain Guides Associations (IFMGA).

The AMGA is only organization in the US that has been vetted by the int'l community. The US is an outlier at this point, in allowing people to "guide" without certification--places like France, CH, Italy, Austria, Germany (for the most part) demand an IFMGA license to guide.

So I guess it depends on your goals--guide locally, wherever you're living? Within the US? All over?! Happy to chat more if you'd like to PM me.

Good luck, man. Mountain guiding...won't make you rich, but it's a fulfilling, challenging, fun, cool career!

RC

I am not a guide, but am somewhat familiar with the process.

First, have you done much technical (roped) climbing before?

The AAI is a decent organization - I took a couple of courses from them years ago.

Eventually, you will want to take courses and get certified through the AMGA. It takes time and money to get these certs. Check out this website:

amga.com/

I think you can make a meager to decent living being a guide, but the old joke is some variation of this:

Q: What do you say to the guide that shows up at your front door?
A: "How much for the pizza?"

Edit: Not all guides have AMGA certification; some work as employees for guiding services where maybe just the owner(s) have the certs. Having the AMGA credentials, however, opens more opportunity for you. If you wanted to start your own guiding business, some/all of the land managers want some varying degree of AMGA certs, as do insurers for your new business.

Nobody ever got rich or made a mortgage on a guides wage. Stick with your classes.

Most people who guide do it for the love.

BigNobody wrote:Most people who guide do it for the love.

Or because they have trust funds to fall back on. :o)

Don't let the dirty mountain khakis fool you.

I understand that money would not be great and I am use to that, former military. I am essentially looking for something that I do love, which I love the outdoors. Something that is not mundane and the longer I attend school the more I realize a normal 9-5 is not for me.

do it.. work sucks.

One more thing to keep in mind is that the AMGA used to accept the GI Bill as payment for their courses and now they do not.

For a short time, it was making it a breeze for me to knock out programs. My only limitation was experience. It's really unfortunate that happened. Hopefully someday (soon) they will accept the GI Bill again.

Comparing military pay to guide pay is a joke. Not to mention all the other benefits, like full insurance. I made 6x more money in the military. I am now very poor.

Do not underestimate the value of a college degree. And sorry, I'm still very upset about the AMGA dropping the GI Bill.

I'm getting outta the military in a week and wanna take on this lifestyle. I'm really inspired by people that embrace the elements without having a fortune. Look at Isaac Caldiero. I tried taking a college class and immediately got sick of sitting at my computer, swallowing stuff I didn't wanna learn.

I hate participating in the social circles with people that are accomplished in college. They talk about the housing market, corporate jobs, wife and kids. And they don't seem very colorful, their personalities. Pretty dull. Trying to live comfortably is overrated, and is evolving us all into fuckin' zombies.

That's a shame to hear about mountaineering guide schools opting outta the GI Bill. I swear, it was the AAI that spoke highly of catering to veterans.

Paul, I spoke to AAI last week and they have been approved for excepting the GI Bill. They are currently waiting on word from the VA on how to proceed and expect resolution within a couple of months.

Popsickle

Some other things to consider:
Location,location,location. You need to live in an area that you can guide year round or be willing to chase the seasons in different locales.

You are going to want to become really familiar with the areas you hope to guide, who the competition is, and if you want to be an independent guide or work for an existing guide service.

You want to make friends with the local climbers, other guides, and the local gear shops and climbing gyms. These people will send you clients if you befriend them.

You need to start with your AMGA SPI(single pitch instructor)course and then decide what direct you want to go from there.

You will need to keep up CPR certification as well as a min 80 hours logged doing WFR(wilderness first responder)work.

Aside from all this you need to be able to solidly climb 5.10 on any terrain

There are many programs like the AAI one or other college programs in expeditionary studies but the biggest thing is the connections you can make. Guiding is about who you know and being easy to work with. Make sure you present yourself in a professional way and you are meticulously organized.

BigNobody wrote:Nobody ever got rich or made a mortgage on a guides wage. Stick with your classes. Most people who guide do it for the love.

Uhh...I pay my mortgage with my guiding wages. I'm also raising a daughter, own a pretty decent car, although being the proprietor may be the difference. Most of my friends who are guides are supporting households/families. If you look at professional/certified/career guides they're doing alright. It's not a six figure job but I'm not just doing it because I love it. Those looking to just "do some guiding" and don't see it as a career, no they're not making much money playing belay slave (at slave wages) for a summer job. Of course very few summer jobs give you much more than beer money.

Of course now everyone wants to be a guide. You're right, guiding is awful, pay is terrible. It's boring and you'll starve before you earn a decent living. Do what most mothers suggest and get a real job.

youtu.be/oA3-InoYsWQ

Popsickle wrote:Paul, I spoke to AAI last week and they have been approved for excepting the GI Bill. They are currently waiting on word from the VA on how to proceed and expect resolution within a couple of months.

Sweet! Thanks for the heads up brotha!

I think it matters if you want to be a guide working for a guiding firm, or if you want to start your own guiding firm. From what I've heard from a couple of friends who are guides, the National Parks and Forest Service have a limit on the number guiding permits available. Out here where I've climbed in California, all permits are currently allocated. There's a waiting list for when the next permit is released.

I'm not sure if a permit holder can use it for all the guides in his (or her) firm, and assign it to the firm past his own retirement. If so, then permits become available very rarely. Maybe someone else here has better knowledge of the permitting rules.

Anyways, the availability of permits might leave only working for someone else, which might not be your dream job. Look into it if that would be a deal breaker for you.

Good luck!

If you want to guide rock climbing you are going to want an AMGA cert, the entry level cert is Single Pitch Instructor, which will require you to have a good base level of technical knowledge as well as have a certain number of trad climbing leads under your belt. In other words they already expect you to be a competent climber, the class will not teach you how to place gear etc.

If you want to guide groups on mountains/backpacking you might want to take a different path. If you want to go the non technical climbing path I would start researching guide companies and see if you can get an internship/apprenticeship, you could perhaps skip the expensive training an gain real world experience that way.

Another option if you aren't set on becoming a climbing guide is to be a white water rafting guide, most companies I'm familiar with will train you for free.

Coppolillo might be referring to AAI's three-week internal guide training. This program (that the AMGA alpine guide course was based on) is not something that is marketed for public consumption. All AAI guides take a combination of internal training and AMGA courses...but that is a different topic...

AAI's Mountaineering Instructor Professional Training Program that is provided for public consumption is designed to help people prep for entry level guiding jobs and AMGA courses. It is NOT an alternative to the AMGA. American guides can often get jobs before working through AMGA courses, but it's unrealistic for them to progress in the guiding world without these courses.

We are in the process of getting VA stuff together. As many of you know, the VA is a difficult organization to work with and we are now in our fourth year of working through the red tape to make this happen. We have been provided approval to accept VA benefits, but have been told to hold off on officially accepting them until they tell us how to do it. I expect that we will be able to accept VA benefits by early summer.

If you have any questions about this, please give us a call at the American Alpine Institute at 360-671-1505.

Jason Martin
Director of Operations
American Alpine Institute

Just another guide bum here. Listen to what you are being told, the AMGA is the way to go if you want to make a career of guiding. You'll also want to look into getting some medical training, Wilderness First Responder at a minimum but W-EMT would be more ideal for you if you are absolutely serious about guiding. Being an Expert skier and/or split-boarder helps a lot too since you have to be proficient in teaching and evaluating your clients for at least two different types of snow travel (i.e. Alpine and Telemark skiing.)
You've got your work cut out for you friend, good luck and call the AMGA for more info.

Good advice here---might be worth looking into that AAI program and Jason is a wealth of knowledge for both that program and the AMGA--he's a certified rock guide with the AMGA--best of both worlds!

Just a note: SPI is a great place to start, but you don't necessarily have to start with it. Good idea, but if your intention is to pursue an individual certification in a particular discipline or a full IFMGA license, then you can jump right into the longer courses via the Alpine Skills or Rock Guide Course.

As for "trust funds," that's a cynical quip that gets thrown around a lot. Easy "out" for people who, for some reason, try to downplay guiding certification/training. Not sure why. Anyway, I know dozens and dozens of guides and I can assure you most do NOT have a trust fund or family assistance of any kind. Lots of 'em start with a bigger company like AAI and get great training, get into the career, then figure what they want to do with it---guide internationally, set up a home base like Seattle or Boulder or Bozeman, or move on and do something else. Working for AAI or Exum or Colorado Mountain School is a fantastic way to get exposure into guiding and see what high-level guides are doing. One of my closest friends in the guiding world drives a newer Subaru, owns a home, has been to Thailand, China, Italy, France in the last year guiding, has a good life. No kids---but that's his choice and with his wages he and his wife make it happen.

Do it, man. However you choose to go, be great at it--excellence gets you repeat clients and sets you apart. I think the best way to see where the bar is is to study from int'l certified mountain guides---the AMGA. And work for a good outfit like AAI, Exum, CMS, etc.

Good luck!

Listen to what Gary N said, finish your degree. Even if you are not ever going to use it, the 4-year diploma opens up a lot of doors. Years ago, when they finally did an open recruitment for NYC Dept of Sanitation, one of the requirements was a Bachelor's degree. Yes, college degree to be a garbage collector and there were lines around the block.

doligo wrote:Listen to what Gary N said, finish your degree. Even if you are not ever going to use it, the 4-year diploma opens up a lot of doors. Years ago, when they finally did an open recruitment for NYC Dept of Sanitation, one of the requirements was a Bachelor's degree. Yes, college degree to be a garbage collector and there were lines around the block.

Stay in school so you can wait in line to apply to be a garbage collector. Are you in sales? I'm buying! /sarc