First Rope

I'm looking for suggestions about what to get for my first rope. Main use will be top roping outdoors. Weight is not a huge concern, but if it's possible keep loads light for approaches and hiking, that'd be a plus. My belay device is a Petzl Reverso 4. But my friends have ATCs and GriGris if it matters.

Having a center mark and/or bi-weave would be nice. But I can always add my own center.

60 or 70 meters I guess so I can do long routes if available and still rappel in one go.

Just not sure what size is best. Probably somewhere in the mid 9s to 10mm?

There are just so many options I don't even know where to look. I've read some bi-color ropes can have issues where the weave changes. And do I need to splurge on dry coating? I don't plan on climbing in the snow or rain with this particular rope.

Basically, I need a reliable, strong, high-quality rope that can take repeated hanging and small, no-slack falls.

Are there brands I should avoid? So far, I'm looking at Mammut, Beal, Trango, Sterling, BlueWater, etc.

Thanks

A mammut supersafe will take all the top roping abuse you can throw at it.

Buy the cheapest 10.2 or 10.5 mm climbing rope you can find in the length you want. Don't worry about brand, specs (number of falls, elongation) etc. Toproping puts a lot of wear on a rope and you don't need a high-priced one.

I have always had good life out of Sterling ropes. I currently have a 10.2 Marathon pro. That has wore well.

I agree with FrankPS cheap is the most import aspect choosing a rope for this purpose. New climbers top roping stuff beats the piss out of ropes.

Most likely you will only need a 60 or 50 meter rope but this is really dependent on the area you climb. To determine the length of the rope you need to figure out where you will primary be climbing and look at the route length. I have found that I only need a 70m rope a handful of times and none of these had top rope access.

Don't buy:
Dry treated rope
Rope with bi-weave
anything less then 9.8 mm in thickness

walmongr wrote:I have always had good life out of Sterling ropes. I currently have a 10.2 Marathon pro. That has wore well.

Yeah, the Sterling 10.1 (they don't have a 10.2...) Marathon is one of the ones I was looking at.

matt c. wrote:Don't buy: Dry treated rope Rope with bi-weave anything less then 9.8 mm in thickness

Can I please have the "why" behind these recommendations? It will help me understand, rather than just following blindly.

heres the basic rope advice i usually give folks ...

beginner rope advice ...

- get around a 10mm +/- 0.2mm (the UIAA allowed variation on rope "diameter")

- better yet look at the weight/metre ... something between 60-70 g/m, more on the higher end for durability ... its a more accurate measurement

- you dont need dry treated ... while the treatment might help the rope last slightly longer, it will wear off in around 100 pitches of heavy use ... especially if you are hangdogging and TRing

- you dont need duodess or bi-pattern ... youll pay $$$$ for it and as a beginner you should practice finding the middle the old fashion way, from both ends ... cause one of these days youll be on someone elses rope, assume the middle is accurate and not realize its been chopped ... learn the basic skills before the fancy gear

- if you do want a middle mark ... it is MUCH easier to see a black middle mark with those fancy bright color ropes, also when rapping its easier to see if those bright coloured ropes are on the ground especially as it gets dark ... i never buy dark coloured ropes anymore

- you should not spend $$$$$ on fancy ropes ... you will trash your first rope within a few seasons ... get something cheap and durable

- if a 60m is on an extreme sale then get a 60, else if its only a bit more get a 70m ... ropes that take constant whippers often wear out from the ends first, you can chop the rope and still have a 60m .... also on multi the extra 10m can make some rope stretcher raps safer ... check people who actually climb in your area as to if a 70m is required or better for the climbs ... also remember that a rope shrinks with use and washes

thats the basics ... now the more "advanced" stuff

- if you are using a grigri, smart or other assisted locking device get a supple rope ... known supple ropes include beal, tendon, sterling, some edelrids, etc ... this is something that **is not in most descriptions** ... only talking to people who actually use the ropes extensively will tell you this ... thicker maxims and mammuts are known as stiff ropes in comparison to the previous brands, they will work fine in assisted locking devices if thin enough, or when new enough, but ropes tend to get stiffer with age and tend to be a biatch to feed (forcing folks to use the "quick feed" method of belaying a gri gri for normal belaying which carries its own risks)

- ask yourself whether you are more likely to get hurt hitting a ledge or getting spiked by a hard catch in the type of climbing you are doing ... if the former get a low stretch/higher impact rope like a maxim or mammut ... if the latter get a higher stretch/lower impact rope such as beal ... also remember that for TRing lower stretch may be better as the difference between a beal vs maxim on static stretch alone on a 60m climb (10% vs. 5%) is ~9 feet ... which can mean a broken ankle

- if you are doing climbs where abrasion is the main concern for rope wear then get something with a high sheath % ... if its from going flat from too many falls, get one rated for a high number of UIAA falls (some redditors will undoubtably protest that it does not matter, it does, but to prevent senseless arguments ill simply post up mammuts view on the matter below, they know a thing or two about ropes)

highinfatuation.com/blog/st…

- if climbing trad a softer catching low impact rope may be beneficial for marginal gear ... again to prevent senseless arguments ill simply post the beal numbers, which is based off CAI (italian alpine club research) models

beal-planet.com/2014/anglai…

and finally talk to folks with practical use and who owns different types of ropes ... guides, route developers, folks who climb daily, etc ...

while quite a few people can give you an opinion of the rope or two they may have owned ... not all that many can give you a comparison between several different current brands and models and which they use extensively


;)

My first rope was the bluewater eliminator 10.2mm 60m and it was awesome until it got stolen. Got it on sale and would definitely recommend it. No center mark or dry treatment or bipattern or anything but no big deal to not have those on your first rope.

FourT6and2 wrote: Can I please have the "why" behind these recommendations? It will help me understand, rather than just following blindly.

Sure
Don't buy:
Dry treated rope- This is a treatment for keeping the inside of the ropes dry while climbing. It is important for ice climbing and if you climb multi pitch where it tend to rain also. The reason you don't want it is because you pay more for it and will likely not need it.

Rope with bi-weave- These rope are much more expensive this cost is unnecessary for your first rope.

anything less then 9.8 mm in thickness- 9.8 has become the kinda standard in cragging ropes. For top roping thicker can be better but I would not go below a 9.8. With ropes less than 9.8mm, the price increases substantially and the rope will wear more quickly.

Gear express always has the best selection of 100 buck ropes. Good luck

gearexpress.com/climbing/ro…

Thanks, folks. Very helpful. :)

If you're going to buy a rope for top roping, get one with the lowest possible static elongation value possible for your money. That way when you are TRing a 100' route and fall 20' off the deck, you dont ledge out. When you have a ton of rope out, some dynamic ropes really turn into stretchy noodles and their elongation is ridiculous (e.g. Beal) making them crappy to TR on.

Honestly, if I was using a rope for 100% TR and I never intended to lead on it ever, I would buy a low-stretch caving rope or semi-static rope for TR.

20 kN wrote:If you're going to buy a rope for top roping, get one with the lowest possible static elongation value possible for your money. That way when you are TRing a 100' route and fall 20' off the deck, you dont ledge out. When you have a ton of rope out, some dynamic ropes really turn into stretchy noodles and their elongation is ridiculous (e.g. Beal) making them crappy to TR on. Honestly, if I was using a rope for 100% TR and I never intended to lead on it ever, I would buy a low-stretch caving rope or semi-static rope for TR.

Yeah, I've been comparing the static elongation of the ropes I'm looking at and I was digging the Beal ropes until I saw they have high elongation. Everything else about them looked good. But seems like they are very bouncy and noodle-like. I was diggin' the Yuji especially.

But yeah, right now I don't lead. I plan on it eventually. But who knows when that will happen. For TR, I can see why less stretch is better.

Static vs dynamic elongation? I'm guessing dynamic comes into play more for lead where you take big falls? And static is more when you fall when there is no slack in the rope?

FourT6and2 wrote: Static vs dynamic elongation? I'm guessing dynamic comes into play more for lead where you take big falls? And static is more when you fall when there is no slack in the rope?

Static ropes shouldnt be used for falling at all. Think rappeling or rescue situations. Less dynamic is what 20kn was saying. Big difference between semi static and static.

My 2 cents on a first rope. Price then length. I found too many routes here in Korea that are 35 meters. No way to get down after climbing them without hauling a complete other rope.

Disclaimer: i am still on my first rope... A blue water 9.8 that is near the end of its life. I wish it was a brighter color but my next rope will be the cheapest 70 meter i find on sale. I was leading immediately though. There are only so many routes you can get to the top of. My situation is different though because the military moves me around so much. I dont know your crag.

trentbrown wrote: Static ropes shouldnt be used for falling at all. Think rappeling or rescue situations. Less dynamic is what 20kn was saying. Big difference between semi static and static. My 2 cents on a first rope. Price then length. I found too many routes here in Korea that are 35 meters. No way to get down after climbing them without hauling a complete other rope. Disclaimer: i am still on my first rope... A blue water 9.8 that is near the end of its life. I wish it was a brighter color but my next rope will be the cheapest 70 meter i find on sale. I was leading immediately though. There are only so many routes you can get to the top of. My situation is different though because the military moves me around so much. I dont know your crag.

No, you misunderstood. Not static vs dynamic ropes. Static elongation vs dynamic elongation. All the dynamic ropes list specs for both types of elongation...

I am guessing that's because static elongation is for when the rope is being stretched just by your weight alone, and not really from a big fall (like when leading). But if you fall while top roping—where there isn't really any slack in the system—maybe static elongation matters more? I was asking.

Yes. Although a static rope would theoretically be better if you're exclusively toproping, know that if you take a big lead fall on it, it will HURT. You might be better sticking with a regular dynamic rope but look for one on the lower elongation range.

FourT6and2 wrote: Static vs dynamic elongation? I'm guessing dynamic comes into play more for lead where you take big falls? And static is more when you fall when there is no slack in the rope?

Correct. Static elongation is the total elongation of the rope between 5kg and 80kg hanging on the rope with no fall. Dynamic elongation is the total peak elongation when an 80kg test weight is dropped onto the rope at a fall factor 1.78 (which is the UIAA standard test). The two numbers will track each other. That is, a rope with a high static elongation will almost always have a high dynamic elongation. The UIAA allowable maximum values are 10% static and 40% dynamic. There are no minimums.

20 kN wrote: Correct. Static elongation is the total elongation of the rope between 5kg and 80kg hanging on the rope with no fall. Dynamic elongation is the total peak elongation when an 80kg test weight is dropped onto the rope at a fall factor 1.78 (which is the UIAA standard test). The two numbers will track each other. That is, a rope with a high static elongation will almost always have a high dynamic elongation. The UIAA allowable maximum values are 10% static and 40% dynamic. There are no minimums.

Thanks!

I went climbing today at Mt. Diablo (CA) with some buddies. I believe the rope we used was an Edelweiss Element of some sort. It was pretty stretchy. Static elongation is 9.3%, dynamic is 36%. It wasn't too bad, but I could definitely feel the stretch. I'll look for something with lower numbers. Price isn't really a concern for me; I wanna get the best I can within the parameters that I need. I'm gonna stay away from a true static rope because I have friends who lead and if I climb with them, I wanna make sure we won't have to switch ropes. Plus I plan on leading at some point down the line. Maybe it will be before this rope craps the bed.

maxim ropes generally have the lowest stretch around ... they also have some of the highest impact forces

also they start fairly stiff and get stiffer with age ... lead belaying with a 9.9+ mm maxim on an assisted braking device is a biatch

on the other hand that big of stiffness makes it more controllable on tube device IMO, especially the standard ATC or guide in low friction

they are also some of the more durable ropes around

;)

bearbreeder wrote:maxim ropes generally have the lowest stretch around ... they also have some of the highest impact forces also they start fairly stiff and get stiffer with age ... lead belaying with a 9.9+ mm maxim on an assisted braking device is a biatch on the other hand that big of stiffness makes it more controllable on tube device IMO, especially the standard ATC or guide in low friction they are also some of the more durable ropes around ;)

My GF loves Maxim ropes, and I like them as well. Accordingly, I have been using Maxim for a long time and own several of their ropes including the 10.5, 10.2, 9.9 and two 9.5mm Gliders. Their thinner ropes are not that stiff. Their thicker ones are a bit stiffer, but I have seen worse. I have no problem belaying on a 10.2mm Glider with the GriGri. I have had more trouble on other well-worn 10.xmm ropes. The nice thing about the Gliders is they use a one-over-one sheath weaving pattern, which makes them a lot smoother than most dynamic ropes. I have seen one 9.9mm Glider get really stiff and hard to belay with for some reason (it was a friend's rope), but none of the ones I have ever owned have stiffened up to the point that they were hard to belay with.

You are right that they have the lowest elongation of any rope on the market, and subsequently the highest impact force (10.4kN for their 9.5mm Pinnacle). However, with a soft catch they are perfectly fine. If you partner doesent know how to provide a soft catch, they will be less fine. They are indeed really durable too. I use a 9.5mm as my craging rope, I've probably climbed nearly 1000 pitches on it, and yet it's still holding up okay.

To the OP, if you can find a 9.9mm Maxim Glider on sale, I would say that would be perfect for you. They have low stretch and their lifespan is ridiculous.

bearbreeder wrote:maxim ropes generally have the lowest stretch around ... they also have some of the highest impact forces also they start fairly stiff and get stiffer with age ... lead belaying with a 9.9+ mm maxim on an assisted braking device is a biatch on the other hand that big of stiffness makes it more controllable on tube device IMO, especially the standard ATC or guide in low friction they are also some of the more durable ropes around ;)

Seems like they don't really list the exact specs of their ropes. Just generic ranges. They list the static elongation as "less than 10%," for example. Not really helpful lol. And the impact force of the Glider 10.2mm is listed as "less than 11.9kN." Wow. That's high.

I'm working on a short comparison list of my top picks as well.

Appreciate the help!