Double backed vs quick adjust harnesses

Hey everyone,

So, I'm shopping for a new harness and trying to decide between a classic double-backing design or the modern "quick adjust." For reference, I'm considering the two otherwise identical versions of the Misty Mountain Cadillac. I've only ever used a quick adjust harness (BD Momentum) and know that failing to double back a harness can be dangerous (e.g: Cliffhanger), but I was wondering if there are any advantages (besides hipster street cred) to a double backing harness.

The only advantage that I can think of is that doubled-back harnesses can be totally separated at the waist quite easily, whereas most quick-adjust harnesses have some sort of sewn edge that makes that more difficult. I think the convenience and speed of adjustment of quick-adjust harnesses more than weighs out that small advantage, unless you plan on needed to put your harness on while wearing skis.

The Cadillac is awesome.

I use the double back because I end up in chimneys and offwidths. Having a harness that won't loosen up in those scenarios is very important to me.

I've had 3 harnesses. One double back and two quick adjust. I honestly trust the double back more. The auto adjust seems to walk sometimes which is a little spooky. Plus the auto adjust wears a little quicker. At the same time I like a tighter harness.

I would go with double back because I trust it more after the 3 harnesses.

I would go with the quick adjust. The differences in safety between the two are extremely small and only noticeable in a few very specific scenarios. Realistically, I would say the double back is less safe to a new climber simply because there are some new climbers out there who dont even know to double back their harness.

Hmm...that'd be a fair point if it was my first harness, but I'm very aware of how double-backing works. Dave: that's actually a really good point, and definitely something that annoys me about my current quick-adjust harness. Although it's never come dangerously loose, it is (as you said) a little unnerving. Thanks for the replies, guys.

If I remember correctly the failure in Ckiffhanger was from a bad buckle, not necessarily not doubling back. That line wasn't strong enough for two, he never should've been out there.

Ah, you're right...the buckle was cracked and it just broke. Jeez, what are the chances of that?

youtu.be/seluTSIqoQ4

The concept of quick adjust buckles never made sense to me - I've never thought that getting into and out of my harness was the place I really needed to shave off some seconds in my climbing day, and having a "quick loosen" buckle that is the main attachment between me and everything else is about as appealing to me as a "quick loosen" knot to tie in with.

You should know that the downsides of speed buckles are not only an annoying gradual loosening, but there have been incidents where the buckles have completely released suddenly. Every time this is reported, there has been a chorus of people basically calling the person a liar, but I witnessed one of these incidents in person just feet away from me, and I completely swore off these types of harnesses after that.

Just know that while the probability of occurrence may be low, the consequences could be extremely high. Whether that constitutes an acceptable risk is up to you. To me, I don't want a harness that has a failure mode like that, and certainly don't want to be thinking about taking a whipper and worrying that my harness may snag something on the way down and I suddenly won't be wearing it anymore. Taking, what, 5-10 extra seconds per buckle is well worth the extra security to me.

Another more mundane downside to speed buckles is as another poster mentioned, often (always?) they are designed so that you can only loosen the strap, not remove it from the buckle completely. With traditional buckles you can take off your leg loops completely while leaving your waist belt on, which is important when you need to drop trou but stay tied in.

I am a big fan of double-back straps. To me, it is more comfortable to completely undo/redo the straps when getting geared up, rather than stepping in and out of a quick adjust harness. Plus, a fully unbuckled harness rolls up into a nice compact ball when storing it in a pack.

Hey all,

Just came across this post. Reigniting it many years later, I am having the same deliberations.  I'm about to purchase a Misty Cadillac to get a much more legit trad harness than the gym-beater i'm using now.  Double back vs Quick buckle.... i see the thought behind getting the double back, although i'm just pretty sure i've only ever had a quick adjust harness.  I have also noticed needing to synch it tight every once in awhile... so the double backs don't do that?  I guess i also realize that i dont' know how to double back a harness, which inherently makes me what to do what i know.. its been good so far??  Certainly i can learn, and I will also say I wouldn't mind being able to take apart the harness completely sometimes to get in/out... the stepping into it isn't always great.

So the questions: 

-what did our fearless poster decide to do!? Some 9 years later what was the final verdict and how do you feel about it now?

-any chance, 9 years later the tech has improved for quick adjust buckles (like a lot of climbing gear has), and now its not really an issue?

Thanks!

I would get the Cadillac in quick adjust but if you want to do things “the hard way” you can get the double back.  Note you can still easily undo the buckles of the quick adjust which was mentioned as a concern up thread

“-any chance, 9 years later the tech has improved for quick adjust buckles (like a lot of climbing gear has), and now its not really an issue?”

If you’re looking for new new tech, you’re not gonna find it in the Cadillac. Still a well made piece of climbing equipment none the less 

If you opt for the double back buckles, I’d say you should get some rigid stem friends to match.  

Quick adjust, all day every day - the end. 

If you want your gear loops to be symmetrical you should be in the smallest 25% of the fit range. If you are chimneying or extremely overloaded with gear (big wall) you could just tie a knot in the "overflow" webbing. That said, I've never had to do that in either situation. 

I prefer the true double back buckles for trad climbing (multi). Quick adjust will creep as you climb or if you snag it on something as another post in the section was being talked about. Some quick adjusts are more prone to creep than others. Metolious, I'm lookin' at you. I also notice the smaller sized quick adjust buckles seem to be more prone as well. My falcon mountain with QAs holds better than say my Sama as example, but both will creep.
When I'm doing multi's, I'm never in the need to take off my harness of put it on in a quick fashion so really I dont see the advantage beyond a few seconds in the bank at the start and end of your climbing day.

The cady is such a great harness no matter the buckle though.

I've been climbing in the Cadillac QA the last couple of years, I've not had the issues people are talking about with the harness creeping open. It's the most comfortable harness I've ever owned, especially when fully loaded with gear. The QA system is tight enough that I have to stuff it through the buckle to synch things up. Some other brands I've used slide closed much easier, I suspect that is where people have had issues with the waist buckle opening back up. When it's time to replace this one I will definitely go with the QA system again.

Quick adjust is not for speed, but safety. Double back harness is safe, unless you forget to double back it. I have had multiple partners forget to double back their harness, so it does happen. Most harnesses are quick adjust now, so it frequently isn’t part of the partner check. You can argue this is “wrong” but it is just what happens.

I have both the Cadillac quick adjust and Cadillac double back. I far prefer the QA because it's easier and faster to deal with, and easier to make super tight. However, I use the DB anytime I know there's off-width or a chimney involved. The QA tends to be a tiny bit more comfortable in my experience. Both great harnesses, can't go wrong with either

Which safety-risk do you want?

Forget to double-back your harness, so it isn't done up?
Something catches your quick-adjust buckle while you/re climbing/falling, and it suddenly releases?

Which mild annoyance do you want?
Difficult to get the harness properly tight, longer to put on and take off?
Occasionally waist-strap creep while in use, that you have to tighten up?

Nowadays, the world of making harnesses seems to have mostly chosen B.

David Gibbs wrote:

Something catches your quick-adjust buckle while you/re climbing/falling, and it suddenly releases?

Pretty sure this only happens if they aim the space lasers just right... 

I have QA on my gym/sport harness, I still love traditional buckles on my caddy.

I have no problem getting it snug - I find it easier cause with the webbing through the buckle once it pulls as far as you want it even easier than the QA, then you close the buckle. That takes a couple seconds, but it’s off set by wrapping webbing around your waist then legs is also a few seconds faster then stepping in and shimmying into it.

I like for long multipitch days never having to check or recinch it.

I have no issues with remembering the buckles, as I’ve never not had this buckle type on my trad harness. My partners w QA buckles, still always include checking buckles in our partner check  (which I think is smart - pre-threaded buckles aren’t magical and should still be looked at to check they’re threaded correctly)

I might be wearing different amounts of layers for trad climbing or even ice and again it’s so much easier to wrap a strap around my leg then step in and slide it up. Yes you can fully undo QA each time but that takes longer than the trad buckles and kinda defeats the one advantage?

And most importantly for me, it’s quick and easy to undo and redo my leg loops as needed. I can pee without messing with my waist belt at all. Whether this matters to you may depend heavily on your anatomy.

All that said, QA buckles are more secure than they used to be, but will creep throughout the day, or if they don’t do that as much it’s likely more work to feed webbing through. And it’s true fewer and fewer people are familiar with trad buckles which might mean more partners who will miss this on you in a double check.

So it all comes down to preference. Hope that helps!