Advice on Joshua Tree / Red Rocks

JT/RR are in different regional forums so I'm putting this here, hopefully this is right!

I'm looking to visit JT or RR for the first time for 5/6 days in early March and am having a hard time deciding between spots. I'm looking for advice on which spot (and particular areas) would be most compatible with my constraints.
- Comfortable leading 5.8 trad and 5.10 sport
- Have a bit of multi-pitch experience
- Max approach time ~30min (maybe a bit longer if flat) due to leg condition

I've read up a bit on the areas, but figuring this out with all the constraints combined is difficult so I'm looking for some advice!

Also, any advice on camping in this timeframe? Thanks!

Nathan B wrote:JT/RR are in different regional forums so I'm putting this here, hopefully this is right! I'm looking to visit JT or RR for the first time for 5/6 days in early March and am having a hard time deciding between spots. I'm looking for advice on which spot (and particular areas) would be most compatible with my constraints. - Comfortable leading 5.8 trad and 5.10 sport - Have a bit of multi-pitch experience - Max approach time ~30min (maybe a bit longer if flat) due to leg condition I've read up a bit on the areas, but figuring this out with all the constraints combined is difficult so I'm looking for some advice! Also, any advice on camping in this timeframe? Thanks!

I dont think J Tree has much multipitch, so you're out on that if you go there. Red Rocks has a ton of multi pitch, but some of the longest approaches of any destination that's not alpine (expect 90 min or more to many multipitch routes). Red Rocks does have about 500 sport routes that have less than a 20 minute approach though, and there are plenty that are around 5.10. Also, keep in mind 5.8 in J Tree is going to be harder than 5.8 in RR.

Josh is only three hours across the Mojave from Vegas. If you have a car, why not visit both? And, if it is wet, you can get over to 29 Palms and climb on granite, wet or not. RR, no leeway when it's damp.
Though RR has many long approaches, it also has some very mellow walks to good climbing, and that is not restricted to sport routes. You won't be disappointed --- unless the wind is up, in which case go to the hot springs and soak it out.

J tree approaches are going to be much more appealing to you. Answer this, are you trying to get in as much climbing/routes/areas as possible or have more of an adventure climbing experience?

I personally think that RR grades are stiffer than Jtree.

grog m wrote: I personally think that RR grades are stiffer than Jtree.

I got a chuckle out of this. I feel confident on most 5.8 trad leads at RR and dont feel comfortable on 5.8's at Jtree at all.( hell I was sketched seconding Double Dip , a Jtree 5.6!) Jtree has short approaches but sometimes the walk offs can be sketchy. Jtree is also mostly trad and requires some crack technique. RR trad may have long approaches, but usually you can zip up a multipitch 5.8 with little or no crack skill. I agree though, visit both if you have the chance!

I know it doesn't matter, but nobody would ever call Jtree Joshua Trees, Im sick of reading Red Rocks, it's Red Rock :) That's the first time I have ever heard someone say that RR has stiffer grades than Joshua Trees lol

JTree would be a good fit.

All the approaches are so short they are flip-flop compatible, weather is rad, areas/routes are everywhere and I can't say enough about the climbing. When I visited I was leading in your range and found plenty to climb. It was also around the same time and it was a perfect spring break destination. I can't wait to go back.

Jacob Koffler wrote:I know it doesn't matter, but nobody would ever call Jtree Joshua Trees, Im sick of reading Red Rocks, it's Red Rock :) That's the first time I have ever heard someone say that RR has stiffer grades than Joshua Trees lol

Blame these guys...ha ha...





Ditto the grades comment...

Lol...red rock grades are soft and cuddly. The approaches, however, are often class 4-5 and definitely over 30 min. You might be able to make it in 20 min if you know where you're going, but from my experience, it's really easy to get lost if it's your first time there, and the approaches can end up being over an hour. :) I'd say JTree would be the best option based on that.

Red Rock has world-class multi-pitch lines at and below 5.8, and the grades are soft like a kitten. Yes, approaches and descents are generally longer, but they don't usually have a ton of elevation gain.

JT, otoh, has limited high quality lines in those grades, and even fewer that are multipitch. You will also usually be in a line to get on them. Approaches can be literally roadside, or over an hour if you go deep in the Wonderland or remote crags on GeoTour or Queen Mtn.

I think it's a no-brainer, go to Red Rock. You can do things like Frogland, Tunnel Vision, Dark Shadows, Cat in the Hat, Crimson Crysalyis, etc and you'll remember those for the rest of your life. There are also shorter crags that are very close to the road if you don't want longer approaches everyday. If it rains, pack up and head to JT.

if you do dark shadows like Will S recommends and are quick, run over and do birdland right near by for a great day!

If you go to red rock you may get to see one of these. (well they are at both areas but I have never seen one at jtree when I have been there)

I swear your arm chair captains don't know how to read. He said "a bit of multipitch experience" NOT "im trying to do multipitch".

Doing something like birdland or frogland really takes some leg work whether you realize it or not. Long hikes in, definitely NOT on flat ground, and then moving up 100's to 1000's of feet of rock takes some real leg work.

Also Jtree felt a lot like gym climbing when I was out there. Strait forward, here is the start there is the end, belay on. Thats why I thought it was softer and climbed higher grades.

Never been to JT but I am going in Feb for a week and have been doing some research. Red Rocks is a regular destination for myself. For Red Rocks if you are wanting to do mulitpitch trad then expect long approaches 1-2 hours is the norm for the stuff worth doing (in my opinion). I dont sport climb much but I know there is a lot to offer with shorter approaches. In my limited opinion seems like Jtree might have more to offer for you, but I sure cant go wrong with either decision.

There is a lot you can do with <30min approaches in JTree. There are some 5.7 and 5.8 3-pitch climbs (The Swift, Dappled Mare), and plenty of great single-pitch climbs up to 5.8 with short approaches.

I just read the comment that stated that red rock was graded stiffer than JTree...wtf? Are you kidding me? Red Rock is so so soft. The first time I was out there I was claiming 5.12's which were the grades I was climbing in the gym at the time. Years later? I STILL haven't sent a 5.12 in JTree. JTree is the real deal and not obvious climbing at all. Sport and especially trad climbs in JTree can be awkward and not at all plug and play, sometimes I spend a minute or two just trying to find a foot, or a hand for that matter, on something as low as a 5.10. Red rock however is like an outside gym. All the holds are right in your face.

ViperScale wrote:If you go to red rock you may get to see one of these. (well they are at both areas but I have never seen one at jtree when I have been there)

Saw this guy looking for a handout in the Rock Garden area of Joshua Tree.

Never been to RR--but in J-Tree the first like 15' of (seemingly) a ton of routes have little--to no pro which can make things interesting IMHO.

Also, there are some great, adventurous multi-pitch routes (multiple days worth) in J-Tree--just read up.

"... And, if it is wet, you can get over to 29 Palms and climb on granite..."

I've personally never heard this before. What exactly have we been climbing in JTree? I was under the impression that it is granite. I've also never heard not to climb it when moisture is present. RR I can understand, but JTree is news to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'd just like to be educated as to if this statement is accurate or not.
-Mackley

I would suggest Joshua Tree over Red Rocks.

At JTree, you have lots (easily 5+ days worth) of good climbing with short to very short approaches. By short approaches, at times it is gear up at car, cross parking lot, skirt two picnic tables, start climbing. A short approach is under a minute. You can, definitely, find long approaches if you want -- but you don't have to.

At Red Rocks, you can occasionally find short/easy approaches -- but they are the exception, not the rule. Generally speaking, at Red Rocks a 30 minute approach is a "short" approach.

If you want to climb more sport than trad, the Red Rocks is the better choice. JTree has no concentrations of sport climbs in the grade you mention. It has the occasional bolt-protected climb in that range -- but most of them are not sport climbs. You will still need to do longish, at times confusing, approaches for these climbs, though.

If you want to climb the best "ticks" you can, e.g. with the highest grade numbers, go to Red Rocks. In the grade range you are climbing (which is similar to what I climb), the grades at JTree are generally noticeably stiffer than Red Rocks. But, there are many excellent and enjoyable lines at JTree in that range. Also, don't write off the nominally really easy routes at JTree... they can have their surprises. :)

Crags to consider at JTree:
Trashcan Rock - great first day crag. I described the approach above.
Cyclops Rock - The Eye (5.3). Worth the (200 yard) approach just for the one climb. (Avoid Penelope's Walk, it goes nowhere like the 5.5 grade, and has bad gear.)
The Thin Wall - a group of excellent moderates
The Blob, The Old Woman, and Intersection Rock are all relatively close to each other and have some good to great choices.
Dairy Queen Wall (bit longer approach, but good)
Hemingway Wall - White Lightning is excellent, and if you lead it, TR the R/X slab to the left (Pig in Heat), which is a very fun climb on TR.

If you want to do some multi-pitch climbing:
Lost Horse Wall - Dappled Mare is the classic on this wall, 5.8 and 3 pitches, and generally good gear.
Saddle Rock - Walk on the Wild Side (5.8) is a great climb if you are comfortable on run-out slab. It is bolt protected (no gear available), but not a sport climb. (e.g. pitch 2 is 100ft, 3 bolts, 5.7) Also worth climbing, but does use a rack is Right On (5.5).

Robbie Mackley wrote:"... And, if it is wet, you can get over to 29 Palms and climb on granite..." I've personally never heard this before. What exactly have we been climbing in JTree? I was under the impression that it is granite. I've also never heard not to climb it when moisture is present. RR I can understand, but JTree is news to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'd just like to be educated as to if this statement is accurate or not. -Mackley

J-Tree is quartz monzonite, which is a type of granite, according to what I've read. It can be climbed immediately after the rain, or during it, if that's your thing! No need to worry about breaking holds off. Granite isn't porous and doesn't become friable after getting wet.

Edit: When he referred to 29 Palms, he was talking about Joshua Tree granite.