WI aka "WATER ice" ? Really?

So is there any other kind of ice?

Wow you really caught those ice climbers with their pants down. Nice one!

Yea, the kind I'm fixin' to go climb right now! Southern Fried Ice

yes, to answer your question, there are other forms of ice that don't come from water. CO2, N2, and a more infamous C10H15N form to name a few

Water(fall) ice vs glacier ice

Jorden Kass wrote:Water(fall) ice vs glacier ice

As opposed to AI (alpine ice).

I've never seen a grade for "glacier ice" but I suspect we're both talking about the same thing.

The two rating systems are water ice and alpine ice. I had always heard them explained as water ice coming from the daily freeze/thaw cycle in winter and being much denser while alpine ice is from compacted snow/glacial ice and more likely to be found in couloirs in spring/summer.

Here's the explanation that was on Alpinist's rating page:
"Water Ice and Alpine Ice Grades:

Ice climbing ratings are highly variable by region and are still evolving. The following descriptions approximate the average systems. The WI acronym implies seasonal ice; AI is often substituted for year-around Alpine Ice and may be easier than a WI grade with the same number. Canadians often drop the WI symbol and hyphenate the technical grade after the Canadian commitment grade’s Roman numeral (example: II-5)."

There is also "Lake Ice", not for climbing, but a lot of testing gets done in it perhaps out of convenience/abundance of it?

Does Miquella = Ellenor?

PRRose wrote:Does Miquella = Ellenor?

Most likely. First post after signing up for MP was this one. Bleh.

AI stands for Alpine ice or accumulated ice such as a glacier.

Nobody in Western Canada drops the "WI" and hyphenates the grade. Are you trying to imply we're lazy Alpinist?

Don't New England climbers have their own designation as well? NE Ice or something like that?

will ar wrote:The two rating systems are water ice and alpine ice. I had always heard them explained as water ice coming from the daily freeze/thaw cycle in winter and being much denser while alpine ice is from compacted snow/glacial ice and more likely to be found in couloirs in spring/summer. Here's the explanation that was on Alpinist's rating page: "Water Ice and Alpine Ice Grades: Ice climbing ratings are highly variable by region and are still evolving. The following descriptions approximate the average systems. The WI acronym implies seasonal ice; AI is often substituted for year-around Alpine Ice and may be easier than a WI grade with the same number. Canadians often drop the WI symbol and hyphenate the technical grade after the Canadian commitment grade’s Roman numeral (example: II-5)."

I always thought that 'water ice' term became of use, once climbers started to ascend frozen waterfalls that were near vertical, thus not made primarily of more snowfall 'condensed' as in a coulair or very steep gully. Once the top-bottom of big ice falls freeze and connect by their running and dripping water, it therefore is more 'water ice' than any collection of snow, since it's too steep for snow to build up on. Agree it is harder, denser. And affected by changing temps of the day very much.

Be Esperanza wrote:Don't New England climbers have their own designation as well? NE Ice or something like that?

Yea, the NEI system, originated in NH. Still appears in the current ADK ice guide, but I don't think I've ever found anyone who could justify it as a different system than the WI.

will ar wrote:The two rating systems are water ice and alpine ice. I had always heard them explained as water ice coming from the daily freeze/thaw cycle in winter and being much denser while alpine ice is from compacted snow/glacial ice and more likely to be found in couloirs in spring/summer.

You are correct as to the origin, but as to the density:

My understanding is that generally alpine ice is denser. It's been compacted for a very long time as opposed to waterfall ice that is all aerated.

edited to add:

After rereading your post, I would say the relative density depends on exactly what you mean by alpine ice. It you are talking about really hard snow like you would find in a couloir in the spring after a freeze cycle, then yes water ice is probably more dense. If you are talking glacier ice, then that is more dense as it has been compacted for many seasons.

In my experience the term alpine is often used to refer to either, but generally means less than vertical and not formed by flowing water.

Im guessing Water Wetter would blow your mind.

Stagg54 wrote: You are correct as to the origin, but as to the density: My understanding is that generally alpine ice is denser. It's been compacted for a very long time as opposed to waterfall ice that is all aerated. edited to add: After rereading your post, I would say the relative density depends on exactly what you mean by alpine ice. It you are talking about really hard snow like you would find in a couloir in the spring after a freeze cycle, then yes water ice is probably more dense. If you are talking glacier ice, then that is more dense as it has been compacted for many seasons. In my experience the term alpine is often used to refer to either, but generally means less than vertical and not formed by flowing water.

I can assure you, there is a lot of ice in a frozen waterfall with ZERO entrained air. This stuff looks like crystal and you can watch the screw go in. You're not going to compress snow to a greater density than that.