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Are mountaineering courses worth the money?

Original Post
chickencheese · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 0

Thanks for any responses!

Brad Christie · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 25

I can't speak to the short 3 day course, but a few years ago I took the Alpine Ascents 13 Day Cascades course. 100% worth it. There were only 2 of us in the course, so it was tailored exactly to our needs/abilites/desires. Our guide was Pat Timson - upon checking in to the office I remember an employee said "you guys got lucky; this guys a legend." I believe he was correct and had the utmost faith and confidence in him. All downtime was spent training & learning.

I know it is not exactly the same as your friend is looking for, but in that experience I would totally recommend. Of course, even in a small group you are only as good as the weakest and can see a 3 day course being bogged down if there is one poor student.

Jake wander · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 195

I think the classes are a good thing. I live in Mn and didn't have any friends with mountaineering exp. to learn from so I took a 6 day seminar with rmi and loved it. I already had technical climbing experience and 4 season backpacking experience but I still found the course very useful. I read FOTH prior and tons of forums but in the field guidance was great.

Another bonus is you get to meet people in the course who want to learn and gain exp. these people can many times become climbing partners. I still keep in contact with some people from my seminar. We are even planning a trip up rainier together in July.

Hope that helps.

Richard Murray · · Conway · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 95

If he's in the Northeast, maybe look into the Adirondack Mountain Club's Winter Mountaineering School

It's entirely non-technical, but does a good job covering ice axe and crampons, as well as the basics like layering, packing, and winter camping. It's also a pretty good deal: less than $500 for 4+ days of instruction with lodging and most food included (depending on the course).

Full disclosure: I'm one of their volunteer instructors.

I've also heard that other clubs have similar winter programs to get people started. Like someone said above, it's also a great way to meet potential partners.

AThomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 25

Where are you located?

That's a good deal that he probably wouldn't regret if the guide/company is a good one.

If he's a beast, he might be bored. An alternative would be to read freedom of the hills and hire a guide one on one for a cool objective.

AThomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 25

Rich,

The gear list for ADK WMS is a bit extensive, though. Are they still requiring double plastics?

Richard Murray · · Conway · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 95

The gear list for overnight trips is extensive, but the day-hike list is much more manageable. Double boots are required for any backpacking trips: if it gets warm (wet) you need to be able to dry your liners overnight. Day-hikers only need single boots.

People have cobbled together rental or borrowed gear, but looking back on when I first took the course, all trepidation about sourcing the gear vanished once I realized that this was something I wanted to do regularly and would need the equipment anyhow. If you take the time to look for deals or find used stuff here on MP or eBay, you can walk away with a full winter kit pretty cheap.

We're currently updating our rental referral list but here's a summary what's been kicking around in the email chains:
Boots, crampons, axes, snowshoes, and sleeping bags are the big $ items we track for rentals.

Right now EMS's in Lake Placid, Buffalo, Saratoga, Albany, and Rochester rent gear. The Mountaineer in Keene Valley rents snowshoes, and someone said they recently stopped renting double boots. The ADK also rents snowshoes from the HPIC at Heart Lake / ADK Loj (where the program's based out of).

It's not what everyone's looking for, but it fills a certain need. It'll get someone ready for any winter hiking and camping in the Northeast (or beyond), and will provide a good stepping stone for those who want to go into technical ice or bigger mountains.

Hope that helps...

AThomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 25

Fox Mountain Guides has a 3-day mountaineering course in NH. It's more expensive than both of the options listed, but run by professional guides. They also head up Mt. Washington. I've had great experiences with them -- though it's been a few years. I think you can tack on an ice climbing course if there's room. Or, screw it, just ice climb the whole time instead.

I did the ADK WMS weekend overnight years ago. It's a great, fun program and you can't beat the price. It's just a different animal. And double plastics and vapor barrier liners are not something I enjoy. I also run HOT. A -20 bag?!

Richard Murray · · Conway · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 95

Registration for 2016 is ending soon - program starts in a little over 2 weeks. If you want in and have trouble registering, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

AThomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 25

I just looked at the IMCS course. Looks pretty cool, too, and similar to FMG. FMG includes lodging.

Richard Murray · · Conway · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 95

Good eye, Chicken, I lived in NY until this last Spring. WMS is just so much damn fun I'm flying up for it this year. It'll help me realign my psyche after having a 70F Christmas :-\

Jake Laba · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 0

My climbing partners and myself did Mt. Baker with Mt. Baker Mountain Guides and have nothing but awesome things to say about them. Ahead of time we told John we want to climb but were mainly interested in learning skills for future big mountains like Rainier, Denali, and such. Several days with those guides taught us more than I realized we didn't know. Completely worth the investment.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
chickencheese wrote: But I grew up around mountains/camping and all this stuff is 2nd nature to me.
Just because someone grew up around mountains doesn't mean they have learned proper technique. I'm speaking in general term, not about you, specifically.

chickencheese wrote: I don't know if recommending against the class is unwise.
I think dissuading someone from getting professional instruction is unwise, unless you feel adequately knowledgeable and capable of instructing him yourself.
r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0

I've done a beginner 4 day course. 2-3 years later I did an advanced mountaineering course.

While both where great, I feel you get the most value for money on the beginners course because everything is new to you so you learn the most. Come the advanced course, I knew or half knew a lot of things, it wasn't a whole new world like it was on the beginners course.

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
chickencheese wrote: I'd much rather have $700 in gear than a low key weekend learning how to dress myself, boil water or strap on cramp ons, but can anyone else offer a different perspective?
Funny how people will spend tons of money and gear and never spend any money on learning how to use it.

The class you described sounds superbasic, but then again your friend's skill level sounds pretty low. A class would be a good way to jump start that.

Also look for a local mountaineering club, you can usually get education there way cheaper than any guide service (do a little research since quality can vary there), but the other nice thing is he will get to meet lots of other potential partners in crime.
Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
chickencheese wrote:Rich, Thanks for the reply, we are in the northeast and he's planning on taking the class with IMCS in North Conway. I was researching lower cost options and found the ADK Course which I was going to recommend to him until I saw the gear list.. Are there any local relatively low cost options for renting some of it?
You are in N. Conway - doesn't IME have a consignment shop? Ought to be able to get some good stuff cheap there.
Markuso · · Fernie · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 95

I'd say he should go ahead and do a course, and rent the gear he needs for it. There's always the potential he finds out that mountaineering is not for him, and that's a very small investment to make, rather than buying all the gear needed.

Now, if he knows for sure it's something he wants to do, depending on what his goals are (glaciated peaks are what I think of most when it comes to mountaineering) he may be better served by taking a mountaineering course out west were he'll learn glacier travel, and other relevant skills.

All of those skills listed in that course can be easily learned through friends if he has someone willing to teach him. However, guides can teach him little tips or tricks that can be super helpful as well.

FWIW I took a 7 day mountaineering course through IWLS/AMG a few years ago, and despite the weather not really cooperating during the course I still felt like I learned quite a lot.

James Katana · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 5

Winter Class is the good one, recommended.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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