Hard bouldering @ 40+... guys and gals who still crush, how do you do it?

I have crazy aspirations to climb V12/13 some day. Yeah, part of it is that I get obsessed with chasing numbers. I need to work on that. However, pursuit of mastery and progression is a deep part of why I love climbing so much (perhaps this is just another pseudo-meaningful disguise to say that I like to chase numbers? Ha). I always gaze upon awe inspiring, super hard boulders, and think "what if...?" I just want to see what is possible for me and my mind/body.

For the 40+ bouldering crowd out there, who didn't begin climbing when they were teenagers, did any of you climb your hardest into your 40's and beyond? There's plenty of discussion on MP of people climbing 5.14 into their 5th & 6th decades, which is great, but I never see mention of people in that age climbing solid V-double digits.

Any anecdotes or climbers you know of that make this happen? If it's you, looking back, what are the things that helped you get this strong? What would you have done differently? Obviously, staying consistent and injury-free are two of the biggest things. Easier said than done? What else? I started climbing in my early 30's, bouldering seriously 2 years later, currently in late 30's. I don't feel like I'm plateauing, but I'm not getting younger, and it seems to be a young persons game.

And yes, I'm shamelessly looking for encouragement and validation. I've been stuck in the gym and it's f@#$ing cold outside and a little motivation would help!

likeaturtle wrote:I have crazy aspirations to climb V12/13 some day. Yeah, part of it is that I get obsessed with chasing numbers. I need to work on that. However, pursuit of mastery and progression is a deep part of why I love climbing so much (perhaps this is just another pseudo-meaningful disguise to say that I like to chase numbers? Ha). I always gaze upon awe inspiring, super hard boulders, and think "what if...?" I just want to see what is possible for me and my mind/body. For the 40+ bouldering crowd out there, who didn't begin climbing when they were teenagers, did any of you climb your hardest into your 40's and beyond? There's plenty of discussion on MP of people climbing 5.14 into their 5th & 6th decades, which is great, but I never see mention of people in that age climbing solid V-double digits. Any anecdotes or climbers you know of that make this happen? If it's you, looking back, what are the things that helped you get this strong? What would you have done differently? Obviously, staying consistent and injury-free are two of the biggest things. Easier said than done? What else? I started climbing in my early 30's, bouldering seriously 2 years later, currently in late 30's. I don't feel like I'm plateauing, but I'm not getting younger, and it seems to be a young persons game. And yes, I'm shamelessly looking for encouragement and validation. I've been stuck in the gym and it's f@#$ing cold outside and a little motivation would help!

Climbing friend,

The answer is most simple. Do not look for external validation or references, and simply boulder as often and as hard as possible without incurring the injury. Do not release the holds from your crushing grip until they pry them from your cold, dead hands.

I'm 46 (turn 47 in May) and am bouldering near my best ever. Been climbing for 23+ years. I have done 2 V9s (last one was in 2009). Have sent several V8s recently and came very close to sending several V9 projects this past fall. Just started a new training cycle now and hope to put them down in the spring. Hoping to get to V10 before I get really old...

Keys to being old and climbing my best ever: kid's are older now so I have time to focus on training, picked up the Rock Climber's Training Manual (thanks Mark and Mike!) and really committed to it just over a year ago, and dropped weight to my lowest in many years.

You won't hear about 40+ boulderers mostly because of debilitating injuries especially from bad landings, but also shoulders. If you want to stay climbing V9+ past 40 you need to maintain healthy strong fingers at all times and keep your weight as low as possible. Strategic planning with problems outside is critical and avoiding the current wave of sloper/dyno/volume inside bouldering is helpful too. Make sure you have easily accessible training facilities, preferably at home. Finally be prepared to be alone when you climb and train. Older boulderers are very scarce and your tolerance for younger ones may vary.

Great points, Peter. Especially the climbing and training alone. I don't mind climbing or training with others, but find that my best training and sending days are usually when I'm alone.

Also, I'm very strategic about what problems I work especially to avoid anything that has a big, swinging right hand dyno (old right shoulder issues...).

Thanks Joe,
The biggest issue for most older climbers in general is sufficient free time to seriously practice a time-sucking activity like bouldering. This especially rankles when you see how many of the younger boulderers you will encounter have so much of it, especially if like the OP, you want to operate at a V12+ level. There are virtually no actual 9-5ish (especially working outside the climbing industry)climbers climbing at a V13 level that I am aware of, at least in this country, and none at all above that grade. So that's a high bar to set indeed.

Likeaturtle,
My best advice is work as hard as possible on building finger strength. For example, can you do solid one-hand hangs on a first-joint edge of 5-7 seconds duration. Even better would be one-arms on the same size edge. The closer you can get to these benchmarks the better. Finger strength is the hardest asset to maintain post-40 years.

No matter what you see out there written about the need for good technique or flexibility or "core", the bottom line is hold-crushing grip per Aleks Z. The other stuff, like the kettle bells and the planks and all that is a waste of time. None of the top climbers rely on that despite what the sponsor videos show. They put in lots of time on top-level problems and if they ever train it's on a hangboard or a campus board. They watch their diets obsessively and rarely eat to excess. They also try really really hard when it counts.

I would add that in my experience as a coach, motivating people past 40 to really dig into something hard in the face of other life commitments is by far the hardest part. They usually bail.

Although Aleks may or may not be a real person, his advice is excellent. I would follow it.

Climbing friend,

In addition to me comment above, I must recommend the eating of the brains or other flesh of the 13 year olds who can flash V13, so their bold flash power may course through your veins and carry you high on your next ascent, refreshing your forearms at crux.

Peter Beal wrote:The biggest issue for most older climbers in general is sufficient free time to seriously practice a time-sucking activity like bouldering.

Interesting, I always feel that bouldering is the least time-sucking climbing style while sport, trad, & big wall sit further on the scale respectively.

Peter Beal wrote: There are virtually no actual 9-5ish (especially working outside the climbing industry)climbers climbing at a V13 level that I am aware of, at least in this country, and none at all above that grade. So that's a high bar to set indeed.

I'm turning 40 this year & my day job involves sitting in front of the computer (I'll admit I'm quite a slacker at work, got no kids & have a wife that pulls just as hard as me), so I think I'll take this as a challenge: send a V11 by fall & more than one V13 by the time I'm 42. Heck, I'll go to the park w/ you this summer & try all the crimpiest problems (even though that's not my style) :)

Peter Beal wrote: No matter what you see out there written about the need for good technique or flexibility or "core", the bottom line is hold-crushing grip per Aleks Z. The other stuff, like the kettle bells and the planks and all that is a waste of time. None of the top climbers rely on that despite what the sponsor videos show. They put in lots of time on top-level problems and if they ever train it's on a hangboard or a campus board.

I think that's true for many of the male climbers, I'm not sure that holds true for the females: you don't have to be Puccio strong (although I can only wish to get into half the body positions she can & I'm definitely not considered stiff for a male climber), but my wife has improved by leaps & bounds largely due to all that.

Peter Beal wrote: They watch their diets obsessively and rarely eat to excess...They also try really really hard when it counts.

IMO, those are definitely key. Diet tend to suffer w/ a hectic life & it's easier to improve/maintain endurance than strength/power as one gets older.

Edited to add: besides the endurance vs strength/power difference, IMO route climbing (especially longer & more involved ones) tend to have a lot of tactics, which are easier to master w/ discipline & time. Bouldering has much more subtle movement techniques, which seem to take more pure talent to acquire.

@reboot, by time-sucking, I mean in relation to available time in general. Carving out a 7 or 8 hour parcel of time to go bouldering at RMNP is always a challenge for me, let alone a Hueco Bishop or Vegas trip.

If you don't have kids that's basically cheating BTW :)

Male or female, if you can't easily hang onto and seriously pull on bad grips that are far apart, technique will take you nowhere at V12 and up in the vast majority of instances. I can think of no serious female boulderers who don't have this kind of strength and I have climbed with many of them.

@Nivel, "important adjustments in training process that are specific to older climbers?"

Number one is watching recovery times. Bouldering is brutal on your body if you're training hard and trying hard outside. Multiple days on or hail-mary tries on dicey moves are a fast ticket to injury and even more time not able to train effectively.

Number two is seriously understanding the physical and mental strengths required to boulder solid double digits. If you did a V9 or two and think, "Yeah I get it" think again. V12 levels of strength will not come naturally or easily after 35 nor will the subtle movement skills reboot mentions.

Number three is believing it can be done, something that is not easy to do. Bouldering strips away the layers of gear, technique, beta, etc. that enable workarounds in sport, trad, and so on. If you fail it's because you weren't strong enough, full stop. Pushing on in the face of this kind of negative feedback can be tough, especially because bouldering provides a lot of it.

@Nivel
"Actually, I recall now that JP Bouvier (a bleausard of some 40 years) put up a 9A trav aller et retour a few years ago. He was 55 at the time.

@Peter, on the question of recovery times - are there useful rules of tumb?"

Not saying high performance is impossible in 40+ bouldering but it's exceptionally rare, especially in the USA. Bouvier's claims of both FAs and grades have not been without controversy, especially because he doesn't travel and his major achievements are traverses. While traverses are certainly valid, I rate a V13 straight up much more highly than a traverse. And in that mode of bouldering you find very few achievements indeed for people 40 and up let alone 50.

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Recovery times are personal, but a general rule of thumb is don't train hard if you feel sore or tired, meaning a likely minimum 48 hours between serious sessions.Multiple days on at a high level are a recipe for injury.

I think the OP is a troll, but the subject is interesting since I'm 52 and getting back into climbing more regularly after about a 10 year hiatus, mostly because my oldest kid now goes to the gym and competes. Now I have a kid who wants to go climbing on the weekends and my wife is cool with that. Nice!

I agree with Peter that time is one of the biggest challenges. Even though I pick her up from the gym a couple times a week, it's only about once a week where I can leave the office early enough to get an hour in before her practice ends. Weekends are a challenge because my other two kids and spouse have their stuff they want to do, not to mention a solid mt. bike ride for me, which is every bit as important as my climbing.

The other big issue which others have mentioned is staying healthy. I started climbing at 13 and, once I got into my mid 40s, the shit just started falling apart. Bad case of golfer's elbow sidelined me for several years in my late 30s. Now, it's a wonky shoulder. It should resolve itself, though it really limits not only my time climbing, but the quality of it as well.

Like most things in life, it throws up roadblocks, but you deal with them and move on.

Nivel Egres wrote:Personally, I don't care about a theoretical possibility of bouldering double digits at 45+ (it does sound like trolling abit). Instead, can we turn discussion toward how to establish a path to consistently boulder V7 without injuring myself?

You are welcome to start your own thread :)

Seriously though, people get injured bouldering before 45+ & a lot of that can be attributed to poor form/technique/body control & physical weakness. It's just that whose things manifest as injuries as one ages. While I agree w/ Peter that elite bouldering requires elite finger/hand strength, it's only a necessary but not sufficient condition (I disagree that V12+ boulderers have all mastered everything else...it's pretty clear to me that some have masked physical weakness w/ really strong fingers & I've seen examples of elite boulderers transforming themselves after addressing those. It does take way less time than building stronger fingers).

How's your pulling form/strength? Are you engaging your lat & other back muscles, do you keep them engages on one-arm hangs? Do you use momentum to your advantage to reach the hold & use the core/body control to absorb the impact? It really is a different conversation.

@nivel what do you mean by max effort hangs? Hangboarding offers a lot of possibilities for training paths.

Indoor bouldering is very different from outdoor and much harder on shoulders, especially given current trends in routesetting and hold design.

@reboot: good technique is essential but is nowhere near as high a priority as strength and power. More strength makes better technique feasible and my experiences on V12+ problems keeps reminding me of it. Older climbers are only going to technique their way up hard boulders up to a point. Anyone seriously considering double-digit boulders generally has pretty good technique already. The threshold to cross to get better is whether you have really solid finger and upper body strength.

Nivel Egres wrote
"Personally, I don't care about a theoretical possibility of bouldering double digits at 45+ (it does sound like trolling abit). Instead, can we turn discussion toward how to establish a path to consistently boulder V7 without injuring myself? ....
... I also find that my preference has shifted from caves to vertical as I grew older."

That might be the key right there: Shift towards the lower angle stuff.

It may also help to defy the conventional wisdom and train the hips, legs, and toes more.

8a.nu/?IncPage=http%3A//8a.…

Interview with Alexander Megos

"- Have you ever tried a movement you couldn’t solve? If so, how was it? Was it a matter of size or distance?

Yes I tried already many moves I couldn’t solve. Some of them are at my training wall at the Café Kraft gym. Some of them are in routes I tried but couldn’t do…

I would say its never a matter of size. Its always the power which is the problem, not the size."

and

"- Any advice you could offer to those aiming to climb harder?

Don’t use for every stupid thing an excuse. There is not too short, too tall, too heavy, too warm, too wet, too humid. There is just one excuse: too weak.

So don’t use excuses, try harder."

Food for thought IMO

Peter Beal wrote:http://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=http%3A//www.8a.nu/news/AllNews.aspx%3FCountryCode%3DGLOBAL%26NewsId%3D38526 "Don’t use for every stupid thing an excuse. There is not too short, too tall, too heavy, too warm, too wet, too humid. There is just one excuse: too weak. So don’t use excuses, try harder." Food for thought IMO

Well sure, if you're strong enough you can do any move. But for many moves, better body position/technique can get you there with less strength/power. That might be less true at the elite level given the baseline technique those athletes have, but it sure ain't true for everyone.

Peter Beal wrote:good technique is essential but is nowhere near as high a priority as strength and power. More strength makes better technique feasible and my experiences on V12+ problems keeps reminding me of it. Older climbers are only going to technique their way up hard boulders up to a point. Anyone seriously considering double-digit boulders generally has pretty good technique already. The threshold to cross to get better is whether you have really solid finger and upper body strength.

I actually don't think we disagree much, other than I think upper body/core (& sometimes lower body) strength, when compared to finger strength, is easy to train to a sufficient level: most elite boulderers are nowhere near as strong as a second rate gymnast. As for technique, older climbers tend to be good at precise hand/foot/body position, but often lack certain movement techniques that I see in even quite young kids... I know Johnny is uber strong these days, but even when he was, well, more mortal, it was a treat to watch his movement. And I bet there are a few in the gym w/ stronger upper body or finger (not including jstar) strength than him.

Climbers are much weaker than gymnasts but they don't need to be strong the same ways. Have you ever watched a strong male gymnast rock climb? That definitely makes the case for mastering technique! :)

However because gymnastics has next to nothing to do with finger strength, it's an unfair comparison. If I was summing it up, I would say that for a serious boulderer looking to get past say V8-9, technique per se is not the issue to get to V12, it's going to be fingers first, general upper body second, technique third. That was the OP's question and what I am trying to discuss.

Older climbers are probably less rapid in adapting certain types of movement patterns compared to younger climbers but that will not prove to be the deciding factor in the end, IMO :)

climbing friend,

also do not forget, in addition to your crushing grip, you must learn the dynamic move to make your move for flash more easier. You may know better as "thrusting up." I do not think you make hard flash at old age without master thrusting up.

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The vast majority of V12 and up boulder problems are Megos-style moves, not blank stemming corners. :)

So what kind of training routine would you recommend for someone trying to break into V11/V12?