Katahdin winter ascent

Looking to Katahdin this winter, trying to find a little information on when conditions are likely to be best(avy danger is my main concern) and recommendations on a good route. I heard the abol trail is closed for hikers but might be open for winter travel.

avy danger in the bowl is present all season. it really depends on what the snowpack has been doing, and particularly in the most recent few days. I wouldn't base the timing of your trip on that. I would recommend going later in the season because you get longer days, late feb/early march is a good time.

if you're doing hiking trails, for the most part you don't have to be concerned about avalanches. the dudley trail to the knife edge has little danger, same with the cathedral trail (those are the only ones I've done in winter). pockets of instability can show up anywhere though, just be aware. I think the saddle trail often has avy danger, though I've never done it.

and regarding the abol trail... just don't go that way. you want to camp in chimney pond.

Thanks for the info, did you do the knife edge?

yes.

What's the delays for a permit?

You're required to apply at least seven days in advance, and from their website it would seem reservations for chimney pond can be booked up significantly before that.

The Cilley Barber is the route to tick. Chimney is a good moderate.

Avalanche danger and time will be your big concerns

March has the best daylight and snow

Good luck skiing 15 miles on the chimney pond trail!

Cilley barber route is above my very limited ice experience. The dates that work best for our party is climbing on the 26 and 27 of February with a day and a half for the ski in and a day for the ski out. Sound more or less reasonable? Looking at the chimney gully and or Dudley to knife edge. How insane would it be for one of our party to snowshoe it the whole way with a minimal pack and the others picking up the extra weight on a sled?

Reggie was the knife edge in winter as awesome as it looks?

don't want to start another thread, but do any of you guys have any experience with the trap dike?

The Trap Dike would be way a much more mellow objective. Some do it in a day. Avy Pass is a beautiful place to camp and 1/3 of the approach to Katahdin.

We're doing both. Hopefully doing the trap dike mid January, in a 48 hour trip door to door from Philly. Have no clue if the conditions will be any good with the weather this year

Wow! Met some guys one year that drove up from DC, climbed Multi Gully and Chouniard's then drove back. Haha..

Thanks Dave for the detailed info.

This trip in addition to being gun by it's own right is a chance to put skills learned on a 12 day mountaineering course in Alaska to practice.

1. we will be hauling a sled on skis with climbing skins but one of our party will be on slowshoes, with as much of his gear as reasonable on the sled to even out the pace. Does that seem reasonable or insane?

2. Have a 4 season Sierra designs tent we will be using and appropriate bags/sleeping pads.

3. Have full avy gear including probes, shovels and beacons. Know how to use beacons in conjunction with probes. Know about digging snow pits and what to look for as well as shovel compression test and rutschblock test. Aware of environmental conditions and slope angles that tend to be most dangerous. While we know these skills we have had little practice with them which is part of the reason for this trip.

4. As to route finding, have had much experience in non-winter conditions and some in winter conditions, aware of terrain traps.

As for the trap dike, the main reason we're planning an over night is we can't drive up, do the dike and come back in one day(I guess we could but I'd be more afraid of the car ride home than anything the mountains have) also another chance to get things dialed better. Any idea on what the condition of the dike would be mid January this year? I've heard that the middle of the season it can be filled with snow( higher Avalanche danger and less fun) but with this season starting so low I have no idea when "mid season" is.
Did you descend the trap by the trail or rapping/down climbing

Will definitely let you know how the mixed methods of travel go. We will be skiing in our climbing boots with silvretta 404's. Thanks once again for your advice.

Deleted post, sorry misread previous posts. My bad for being a jackass.

Dave, there's little bits of ice and no snow in the Dacks. It looks like there's snow at the very tops of the 46ers. No way Avalanche Lake is frozen. We went climbing in Wilmington Notch last weekend. It was cloudy but 47! The temp never got below freezing at night. Someone said they were in a t shirt.

Roddack, yes, summer and winter. Both were birthday celebrations.

Excuse me if I compared the Dike to Katahdin. I met only to say the Trap Dike is a much easier objective than Kathahdin. I thought the OP wanted to dial it back a few notches but still make it a multi day trip.

I feel like we ran into each other before?

Ryan,
I've done the Katahdin trip twice now and here are my 2 cents.

If you can't get into the bunkhouse go light! Treat it like an alpine climb. When you have a sled, it's tempting to bring a ton of stuff you just don't need. The lean-to's are totally fine for camping out for a few nights (bring a bivy sack if you're worried), and a tent is a fine option as well but adds weight.

For the approach, it's a lot easier if everyone has sleds, regardless of the method of travel. Pulling a sled is harder than you'd think, especially for 16 miles. You probably could get by with one sled and large packs, but dividing it up more is better.

There really is no reason to worry about mixed approach methods... Unless you're a really strong skier and conditions are great, everyone is likely going to be stashing skis at Roaring Brook/carrying them up and slogging up to Chimney Pond on foot anyways. If the skiers pull ahead on the way in, they can wait up from time to time (key intersections) or just meet at Roaring Brook.

The last time I went in (March 2011) the snow conditions were so shitty I just threw the skis on my sled and pulled them in.

1.5 days for the approach is standard. You can then go and ice climb something mellow (mini-Pinnacle?) that first afternoon.

Trap Dike is best done in a long day.

Pat, I know the pain of a sled, took half a day to do 3 miles uphill with snowshoes post holing in heavy wet snow(yes post holing with snowshoes) with a 90lb sled. Not something I ever want to do again haha. Two sleds does sound like a better idea.

I've done katahdin four times in winter, and from my perspective, there are two main concerns you should have in planning the trip:

1. sled and ski setup
2. comfortable living

there are probably a lot of things on your mind, but trust me, those are the biggest determiners of a good trip. getting to chimney pond fast means you can chill out and not be exhausted the next day, and to do that you need a dialed setup. and you can tolerate any shitty climbing experiences if you have a good base camp to return to.

for the sled, check this out: wildsnow.com/2875/sled-pulk…
PVC pipe does a decent job too, but beware its brittleness. one of my poles broke two years ago, and I had to jury-rig something to make it work. I can give you more detail if you'd like it.

I *highly* recommend that everyone has a sled and skis. moving at the same pace is important. if you have a good setup, you will cruise, I promise. I've made it to chimney pond in 8 hours from Abol bridge the last two years (16 miles, with significant uphill), but that's only because I had my setup dialed.

if you go the cabin route, you don't have to worry about this stuff so much. but lean-to living is awesome, I've done it every year. the number one concern for comfortable living is keeping your shit dry. learn all you can about how to do that while winter camping, it's super important.

a few suggested items per person:
a shovel
a stove, and enough fuel to boil two liters of water a day
a soft pad to sit on
a super-warm sleeping bag and a pee bottle
food you actually like
designated camp clothes (down booties, puff pants, sweaters, etc)
little baggies to put stuff in, for organization
beer/whiskey (most rangers don't care, but be cool about it)
taint wipes (aka wet ones)
gold bond powder (YMMV)
hand sanitizer
good pillow
many pairs of gloves
lantern
tissues
extra socks
repair kit (for your sled, and for your clothes)
in my list of stuff to bring next time, I also wrote down "GI Joe figurines" for some reason. try that and let me know if it adds to your comfort.
lastly, a gift for the ranger (be advised, they don't all drink whiskey)

bits of advice for happy lean-to living:
first thing you do when you get to the lean-to: build a fort with the snow around the front, make your entrance small. make a shelf of snow at the end of the lean to that you can put your stoves on.

put all your wet/damp stuff in your sleeping bag with you when you go to bed, the stuff will usually dry out, mostly

boil a liter of water and put it in your sleeping bag with you; helps dry the wet stuff out.

consider bringing small water bottles to put hot water in, and then put into your boots to help dry them out. or just bring double boots and put the liners in your sleeping bag.

I don't recommend avalanche gear. heresey, I know. you will be fine if you pay attention to the snowpack and what the weather's been doing. just don't go out if there's reasonable doubt, such as heavy snow the day before, or wind-loading.

don't bring snowshoes. you won't need them anywhere on the approach to chimney pond. the only time you might use them is on some trails out of chimney pond, but once you get above treeline you'll mostly be rock-hopping.

that's all I got for right now. let me know if you have any questions.

My trip report (and pics) from two seasons ago:

KatahdinTrip

Was up there for 8 days about 2 years ago. Best advice I can give is just stay up there for at least a week and hope for the best.

greg koz wrote:Was up there for 8 days about 2 years ago. Best advice I can give is just stay up there for at least a week and hope for the best.

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