Ascenders for new climber

So headed to Patagonia and one of the climbers on our team is considerably weaker than the rest of us. Looking for a simple ascender system that's light for occasional use by a weaker climber. Thinking of getting one ascended and a mini trax. Thoughts or suggestions?

We'll be climbing 5.10-11 range and he'll need more help than an occasional French free so we can move fast. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks in advance guys.

Edit: have looked at ascender/grigri systems but want to limit extra gear to as little/light as possible and he will be using a jul or alpine smart to belay/rappel

I've used two ascenders or one and a T Block. That would be the quickest.

Here's what you might be looking for:

Here's a link to the diagram I tried to show.

mountainproject.com/v/11088…

If you are spending all the $$ to go to Patagonia then get 2 real ascenders.

Don't do this, it is a terrible idea. If your second can not manage by his/herself to follow a pitch with only minor shenanigans, you shouldn't have brought them on it all. Choose objectives your whole party can tackle safely and efficiently.

Having a weak (and presumably less competent) climber rig an ascending system is asking for trouble. In the best of circumstances, it's no fun for anyone. In the worst (and pretty likely) scenario, it'll be a horrible clusterfuck of terribleness.

If they are truly just weak, but very competent with rigging systems, they'll figure out their own system.

Shot in the dark here: is this person your SO?

Eric Engberg wrote:If you are spending all the $$ to go to Patagonia then get 2 real ascenders.

+1 on this. Too many of the other proposals e.g. Garda hitch, Grigri, won't work (or will be problematic at best) if the climber is hanging on a taut rope.

Just put a small explosive charge in the knot on their harness and tell them if they don't follow the pitch in 15 minutes, you will separate them from the rope.

Hey, it always works in the movies as a motivator.

Personally, ascending with friction hitch/slings sort of rigging is much more taxing than climbing. Whatever you are leaning toward doing, please have them try it out and practice ahead of time, so THEY can decide what they are comfortable with. Or not. No snark intended, but as I expect to be the "weakest" party for my entire climbing career, I also realize I need to be able to judge the safety of what we're doing for myself, especially if it's way above my pay grade. That said, wow! Patagonia! Have a fabulous trip, all of you! : )

ascenders will be fastest, no doubt.

that being said, you can rapidly ascend a rope by putting a microtraxion or tibloc above, connecting it with a locking biner and a double length sling. Have the gri-gri (or ATC guide in guide mode) as your locking and stopping mechanism. Then take the tail of the rope (going below the grigri/atc) and put it through the locking biner connecting to the microtraxion/tibloc. Now you have a simple 2:1 that you can pull the tail down to quickly take up slack in the grigri/atc.

I've used this on many big routes where weight is an issue.

Good luck.

Are they primarily free-climbing with some pulling on ascenders mixed in or are you expecting them to jug a fixed line? If the former, then those grigri methods won't work. If the latter, you might as well do proper big wall technique with 2 ascenders for the faster, less tiring option.

Do they already know how to use ascenders?
Do you know how to use ascenders?

Do you envision that they would snap on the ascenders when they reach a hard part and just walk up the wall with the feet and use the ascenders as a handhold? Are they strong enough to do this? Are you going to attach the ascender to their harness with a daisy chain?

What happens when they want to go back to free climbing? Will they be ok hanging onto a hold or piece of gear while you take up 10+ ft of slack?

If you expect them to be yarding up longer stretches, you can pick up McNamara's big wall book so you can see how to properly do it. It'll make improvising things easier.

Where in Patagonia are you heading and when? I am heading down partnerless since some things fell through. I'll be in Chalten Dec 12-Jan 16th

Hey guys, thanks for your thoughts here, and the feedback is a lot more civil than what I was bracing for.

We'll be headed to Frey which has less committing routes available, and he'll be joining us on the more mild climbs we'll be heading up on. Anything big/hard he's planning on hanging back and going flyfishing cause that's his thing. He's a college friend who was stoked on the idea of going down to South America to climb a bit, fish a bit and relax in the mountains and more than happy not getting on harder/more committing routes with us.

We're more than happy to have him join us cause he's followed in the Gunks and NH a bit and has always had a really good head on his shoulders and is happy doing his thing if we want to do a route above/beyond his abilities. We're also planning on doing some routes involving a rare aid pitch so were planning on getting an ascending system anyway. And practicing with it beforehand obviously. I've only used a 2 ascender system and found it easy to use, especially with leg loops which is what I would have him set up with. Clint - that's an idea I've always wanted to play with. I'll pull out my gear tonight and give it a go before laying down $$ for some new toys.

And been saving up for this trip for a year and a half so definitely planned it so won't have to give up climbing hard because we have a weak climber with us. Also at Frey I've always met up with some great folks and strong climbers. Really easy to find partners out there. We're headed up with 2 other serious climbers who I have no doubt will be able to push it on harder climbs so it's not something I'm really worried about.

And no... other person isn't my SO. She was supposed to come when we bought tickets a year ago and it's funny how quickly things change in college, so romantic Patagonia trip will now be an epic 'bro trip.' Much better this way IMO. More climbing, less talking about feelings which sounds great to me.

First time I was in Patagonia was pretty new to climbing but still had a great time and climbed a lot of great routes, so feeling confident another 'new' climber can have a really good time going into it with the knowledge that there will be routes that aren't a good place for him to join on, and he's ok with that. This time I have a double rack instead of the 5 cams, set of nuts and hexes that I could scrounge together for my first trip. Amazing how stretching a budget makes you really good at placing passive gear and running it out... a lot.

I'm hoping to get out on some big routes in the Chalten area Jan 12-14 if you're interested Arthur, shoot me a PM. I'll be bringing all my gear down with me just in case. We'll be in Bariloche/Frey Dec 27-Jan27, if you're looking for a partner or something - hit me up and we can chat. Also thinking of heading to Cerro Colorado for a week at some point during our trip.

Matt

is it raining or snowing where you are right now?

then GET OUT THERE and PRACTICE ... wet and icy ropes are the best time to practice ascending, rapping, self rescue and escaping the belays under full body weight

get him to ascend and descent the rope over and over again ... with the same system you plan on using there

use a proper backup when practicing of course

if you want "cheap" durable ascenders climbtech makes a pair for a reasonable price ...

for an "emergency" system he should be able to do it with a friction knot/tibloc and his reverso/grigri ... but it requires PRACTICE

and he should be able to do it with ONLY friction knots just in case as well

;)

Not trying to hijack your thread, but I have a pair of Petzl ascenders (L/R; new w/o tags; previous version) that I'd be willing to part with if you're interested.

Good luck

Also, getting your partner versed in how to apply aid techniques to get through hard pitches is recommended. Pulling on gear in hard cracks, using slings as foot loops, and the like will obviate the need for busting out the ascenders. It is an actual skill set worth learning.

How much Ikmartu?

$100 shipped, OBO PM if interested

Check out the Kong Futura ascenders. 25% lighter than the petzl ones. I've used these ascenders for thousands of feet of jumaring. They take some getting use to and don't feel as bomber as the petzl ascenders but they are lighter and less bulky. You can save even a bit more weight by using the the Kong Futura Body ascender as the top one. This combo weighs in at 205g compared to the Petzl combo of 330g. And withoutt a doubt the Petzl dyneema Footcords are the way to go unless you just want to fashion something out of 6mm cord.

Mikey Schaefer wrote: Check out the Kong Futura ascenders. 25% lighter than the petzl ones. I've used these ascenders for thousands of feet of jumaring. They take some getting use to and don't feel as bomber as the petzl ascenders but they are lighter and less bulky. You can save even a bit more weight by using the the Kong Futura Body ascender as the top one. This combo weighs in at 205g compared to the Petzl combo of 330g. And withoutt a doubt the Petzl dyneema Footcords are the way to go unless you just want to fashion something out of 6mm cord.

I know this thread has been dead for a while, but I was just looking at the futura hand ascenders and was wondering if youre still favoring those after years of use? Have you ever had any significant issues with them? On paper they seem like a better mousetrap compared to the regular ascenders. 

Yann from Bliss Climbing has reviewed the Kong Futura.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpPCYSquxkg

Yep, I’m still using the futuras (actually on my 2nd set after wearing out my first ones).  Only time I don’t  use them is when I’m on really icy ropes.  I don’t really big wall aid climb so much these days so I primarily use them on fixed ropes or following behind a rope gun while I’m shooting photos/video or alpine climbing.  Still happy with them for that use and have probably jugged some stupid amount with them.  (Probably over 100k ft.)  If I was doing lots of serious aid walls I’d probably go back to a different model.  So depending on use case I’d still recommend them.

Most of Yanns assessments seem good, though it is obvious he hasn’t actually used them.   Taking them off the rope is easy if done right.  He technique wasn’t great. ( I reverse from how he had them)  If you are the sort of person that needs a hole to clip a “backup” then futuras aren’t for you.  Also it takes good jugging technique to not scuff up your fingers.  So a beginner might find futuras tricky but not an issue once you have a bit of experience with them.   The grip is on the smaller side so if you have huge hands I could see them being weird though I know other people who have large hands and have used them with gloves without a problem (see pic).  YMMV.  

Overall they are a slightly different tool than a more classic ascender and won’t really work for some people.  I continue to be happy with the weight and especially the bulk savings.  I usually have a lot of camera crap or bivi gear with me so the savings are worth it to me.

Josh Huckaby using the Futuras on an attempt of a new route on Cerro Standhart.