Where in the USA? Best small to medium-size climbing town

Anyway, this is a fun thing to think about, and I imagine most climbers have thought through this. If I were in your shoes, here are some places I'd consider, organized by category:

Small towns (limited employment, most don't have a climbing gym, somewhat limited culture, awesome climbing access):

Bishop, CA: Amazing bouldering and alpine rock climbing, pretty good sport climbing too. Good skiing. Very small and remote town. Major climbing hub. Awesome, dramatic landscape. Summers are very hot in town, but you can get up into the mountains to climb.

Lander, WY: Best small town in the US for sport climbing (IMO). Hope you like pocketed limestone. Bouldering scene is blowing up too; lots of granite and gneiss boulders. Surprisingly year-round rock season; winters are cold, but there are some solar-oven effects that let you climb in Sinks in the winter. Small town, very remote.

Carbondale and Glenwood Springs, CO: I would live here, given the mobility to go anywhere in the US. Sport climbing access is superb, with Rifle being the big draw, but there are dozens of lesser known local crags too. This is a place to go if you want to get strong (i.e. Rifle). Some good bouldering in the area. The Black, the Creek, and Moab towers are nearby if you want to go trad climbing. Climbing season is surprisingly year-round despite winter snow; there are some good south-facing sport crags for the winter. Great climbing community. Very progressive feel, for a small town environment.

Fayetteville, WV: You come here for the New River Gorge. Cool little outdoors community in the middle of backwoods Appalachia. The weather is a serious struggle there; stay far away if 300 days of sun per year are important to you.

Truckee, CA: Awesome little mountain town. Great for skiing (if/when the drought ends). Tons of bouldering, lots of trad climbs, and some sport climbing; not a sport climbing hub, but maybe adequate. Pleasant climate, if you like both sun and snow. Expensive.

Moab, UT: More a place you would move to if you were into trad/crack climbing. Sport climbing is more limited. Beautiful place, but a bit of a tourist zone.

Estes Park, CO: Great for bouldering and trad climbing. Some sport climbing, but more limited. Great mountain town, but a bit touristy. Cold and windy winters.

Canon City, CO: Great sport climbing access, but local culture is limited...

Ouray, CO: Tiny town in the mountains, many local crags being developed. You'd probably need to get in to ice climbing.

Various NH small towns: Quant small towns in New England. Great culture. Good place for raising kids. Pretty good climbing options, especially if you position yourself near Rumney and/or North Conway. Cold winters, humid summers, lots of precip, lots of bugs.

Squamish, BC. Yes, it is in Canada, so there is that to consider. Fantastic climbing town, with massive amounts of climbing of all sorts very very nearby (i.e. walk to from your house). Very scenic. Winters are long and very rainy, but not too cold. Great skiing nearby to get through the winter. Biking and boating are great too. Fantastic outdoors community.

Missoula, MT. 4 nice seasons (not as cold or snowy as you might think). Variety of climbing within 1.5h. ZERO crowds. Lots of brewerys. Decent bouldering gym. Far north so loooong summer days (and short winter days). City of rocks and Tetons can easily be done over a long weekend. Glacier NP. Short cheap flights to "big cities" - Seattle/SLC/Denver/Portland.

Medium Size towns (big enough to have some culture and a climbing gym, small enough to not have big-city congestion)

Bend, OR: Very nice, livable town. Climbing in Smith is outstanding, but you will for better or worse be climbing only at Smith (and Trout). Biking, boating, and skiing options are good. Pleasantly dry climate- dry but not brutally so. Summers are fairly hot. This should absolutely be near the top of the list.

Flagstaff, AZ: Cool town, great climbing. The bouldering and single pitch crack climbing are excellent. The sport climbing is decent but not outstanding. Very nice climate (high altitude, low latitude).

Chattanooga, TN: Awesome town, amazing climbing, great community, brutally hot and humid summers. Lifetimes of bouldering, great single pitch sport and trad cragging. A progressive enclave within the south, but still the south. Good gyms.

Asheville and Boone NC: the other two really good outdoor enclaves in the South. Both are cool mountain towns. Better for bouldering and trad climbing; sport climbing in NC is quite limited.

Saint George, UT: Amazing climbing access, horrendous local culture. Depends on your priorities.

Grand Junction, CO: Great climbing access, a bit of a hick town. Very inexpensive. Hot summers and cold winters, but still pretty good for year round climbing options. Tons of variety. Good access to Rifle, Moab, the Black. Not much right-in-town sport climbing; you have to drive over an hour for that (but there is lots of bouldering and trad climbing closer).

Golden, CO: A really nice medium-size town in the foothills on the edge of a big metro area- best of both worlds. Big climbing gym; good climbing scene (but much less of a "scene" than Boulder). Local climbing is quite close, extremely extensive, and pretty good. Clear Creek is pretty nice as a "backyard" crag. Good access to other regional destinations. Fairly year-round season. A bit pricey, but cheaper than Boulder. This town is pretty good for most things.

Boulder, CO: For sure on the outer edge of your population size target. The upsides and downsides of this place are well-debated. Tons of climbing of all kinds, and a pretty good year round climate. Definitely a scene- love it or hate it. Expensive and a bit crowded.

Fort Collins, CO: Similar upsides to Boulder, but less of a scene and more affordable. Not quite as close to quite as much climbing. Generally a mellower vibe.

Sante Fe (or another northern NM town, like Los Alamos or Taos): Kind of off the mainstream radar, but it seems like they've got some good things going on down there. No major destinations, but lots of local crags. Nice climate, pretty landscape, cool culture.

Burlington, VT: Mentioned only because someone else did. Climbing access pales in comparison to other towns listed here. Weather is not great for climbing- long snowy winters, humid summers, bugs, rain. Awesome town, beautiful place, great culture. Move there only if climbing is a second-tier priority.

Ben Circello wrote:Lexington,KY

^^ This

Don't even consider Oregon. This state damn near killed all my motivation to climb.

Marc801 wrote: Despite the thread title, the OP stated up to about 100K, which is about the population of Boulder CO. Charleston WV is 50K, btw (just looked it up).

Oops. My bad. Sorry.
A place mentioned by the OP - LEX, with 300k residents, gives me the feeling of a nice small city.

s.price wrote:Durango,CO fits your criteria.

Shhh, we're still kind of a secret.

JCM wrote:Boulder, CO: For sure on the outer edge of your population size target. The upsides and downsides of this place are well-debated. Tons of climbing of all kinds, and a pretty good year round climate. Definitely a scene- love it or hate it. Expensive and a bit crowded.

the whole denver metro is way over crowded. 200k moved here from 2013-14, and it's supposed to go up 50% by 2040.

When you just moved here it's not bad, but if you've been here for a while the growth is making it a bit overwhelming.

JCM wrote:Squamish, BC. Yes, it is in Canada, so there is that to consider. Fantastic climbing town, with massive amounts of climbing of all sorts very very nearby (i.e. walk to from your house). Very scenic. Winters are long and very rainy, but not too cold. Great skiing nearby to get through the winter. Biking and boating are great too. Fantastic outdoors community.

The thing is, it's usually pretty difficult for a US citizen to move to/work in Canada if they're not planning on becoming a Canadian citizen.

Scott McMahon wrote: the whole denver metro is way over crowded. 200k moved here from 2013-14, and it's supposed to go up 50% by 2040. When you just moved here it's not bad, but if you've been here for a while the growth is making it a bit overwhelming.

The issue with perceived crowding in the Front Range is not the number of people, but the disconnect between expectations and reality. People living in the Frange, both natives and transplants, often have this fantasy of living in a wild-west, open space, out in the mountains environment. This is clearly incorrect; Denver is a big city in the plains, with all to pros and cons of a big city. But as far as big cities go, it is pretty nice. There are lots of parks and open space, and the mountains are nearby. The reason people who live there are often discontent is that they are comparing Denver to Ouray and Moab, not to more appropriate comparisons such as Sacramento.

I moved from the Denver area to Seattle about a year and a half ago. Seattle has a similar growth trajectory to Denver, but has more geographic limitations to expansion. By any measure, Seattle is a more urban and more "crowded" place than Denver. The traffic is definitely worse in Seattle. Yet, you don't hear the constant griping about how intolerably crowded Seattle has become. I think this is because residents of Seattle realize and accept that they live in a major city, and don't cling to a fantasy that they are (or should be) living in thier own private mountain kingdom.

Denver isn't overcrowded; it is just a city. That is how they are. If anything, Denver is undercrowded; it would be a better place to live if densificiation of the urban core was pursued instead of endless suburban expansion.

Anyway, back to the main thread...

Mike Brady wrote:Don't even consider Oregon. This state damn near killed all my motivation to climb.

Care to elaborate? Yeah the Willamette Valley sucks for climbing starting about now through sometime in May, but Bend is a very different place. I live in Eugene and frequently do the long commute to Smith. That's a crapload of driving, but Smith is quality enough to make it worth it IMO.

Marc801 wrote: The thing is, it's usually pretty difficult for a US citizen to move to/work in Canada if they're not planning on becoming a Canadian citizen.

I read somewhere up thread that the OP doesn't need to work so I'll say this. You can get dual citizenship if you park some cash in a Canadian bank. I believe the number was $660,000 back in 2008. Not sure what it is now.

Squamish is an amazing place to live. I would check into what it would take if I were you.

Flag

Hwy 395 and Bishop area for sure!! Year round, seasons, close to all kinds of climbing and exploring.

Boulder

JCM wrote: The issue with perceived crowding in the Front Range is not the number of people, but the disconnect between expectations and reality. People living in the Frange, both natives and transplants, often have this fantasy of living in a wild-west, open space, out in the mountains environment. This is clearly incorrect; Denver is a big city in the plains, with all to pros and cons of a big city. But as far as big cities go, it is pretty nice. There are lots of parks and open space, and the mountains are nearby. The reason people who live there are often discontent is that they are comparing Denver to Ouray and Moab, not to more appropriate comparisons such as Sacramento. I moved from the Denver area to Seattle about a year and a half ago. Seattle has a similar growth trajectory to Denver, but has more geographic limitations to expansion. By any measure, Seattle is a more urban and more "crowded" place than Denver. The traffic is definitely worse in Seattle. Yet, you don't hear the constant griping about how intolerably crowded Seattle has become. I think this is because residents of Seattle realize and accept that they live in a major city, and don't cling to a fantasy that they are (or should be) living in thier own private mountain kingdom. Denver isn't overcrowded; it is just a city. That is how they are. If anything, Denver is undercrowded; it would be a better place to live if densificiation of the urban core was pursued instead of endless suburban expansion. Anyway, back to the main thread...

Very very true. Also the reality is that the growth we've seen in the last 5 years has been astronomical when you are dealing with it. 5 years ago it took 1.5 hours to get to keystone, now it's lucky if it's 3-4. Housing was bad back then...real bad, but now we are some of the worst in the nation.

Easier to accept when it's not crammed down your throat all at once. It's not like I'm talking about 20 years ago..i'm talking about several.

But fuck it...haha love it or leave it.

Dylan Colon wrote: Care to elaborate? Yeah the Willamette Valley sucks for climbing starting about now through sometime in May, but Bend is a very different place. I live in Eugene and frequently do the long commute to Smith. That's a crapload of driving, but Smith is quality enough to make it worth it IMO.

Smith is probably my least favorite climbing area I've been. Besides Smith what else do you have close? Trout Creek is amazing, but that is all I know of.

Take a look into Bellingham, WA. Close to the North Cascades, 2 hours from squamish, and not too far from index and Leavenworth.

Bill Kirby wrote: I read somewhere up thread that the OP doesn't need to work...

Someone may have implied that, but never mentioned by the OP (MClay).

Bill Kirby wrote:You can get dual citizenship if you park some cash in a Canadian bank. I believe the number was $660,000 back in 2008. Not sure what it is now.

Hence my comment "pretty difficult". Not a lot of climbers I know have 2/3's of a million dollars that they can park somewhere.
But actually, not quite. Before you can get dual citizenship, you need to have been a permanent resident in both countries for some time. Are you thinking perhaps of residency status?

From: wikihow.com/Have-Dual-Citiz…

"""""""""""""""
Get permanent residency status in Canada. If you are not a citizen of Canada or were born in Canada, you will need to apply for permanent residency before you can be eligible for a Canadian citizenship. If you are already a permanent resident, you must meet several conditions before you are eligible for Canadian citizenship:

You need to have been physically present in Canada for at least 1460 days (4 years) in a 6 year before before you apply for Canadian citizenship. Also, within these four years, each year, you must have been physically present in Canada for 183 days.
You must not be under review for immigration or fraud reasons or be under a removal order.
""""""""""""""""""

Work permits and visas are a whole different animal.
canadaworkvisa.ca/info/faq.…

I just came across this article today. It's definitely worth a read. Of course Littleton, CO doesn't have much of any climbing in the immediate vicinity, but if you're willing to drive a little ways, it's almost unlimited.

"There's a city in metro Denver where housing costs are affordable, home-ownership rates are high, cost-of-living is comfortable, education and health care are sound and quality of life ranks high.

And that place is Littleton — the second-best small city in the U.S., according to a new WalletHub study.

To compile the ranking, WalletHub assigned the small cities scores across 22 metrics including housing costs, cost-of-living, affordability, quality of life, education and healthcare systems, unemployment rates, income growth, crime rates, average commute times and even recreationally activities nearby like museums and restaurants."

So I'll be in your situation in about 2 years so I'm interested too.

Something to think about with St. George. It does have epic summers. From mid May to October, it's not really climbable. You can drive to better temps but it's quite a way.

It's hot enough to screw up just about all activities, not just climbing. I don't like riding a bike about 90 or 95 degrees. I also work on the garden less. Don't clean out my car. And watch more TV. Seriously, it sucks in that kind of heat. I do like riding a motorcycle at night only wearing a t shirt though.

What about the other end of the state? Logan, UT? A lot more going on there and 4 seasons.

Depending on your religious or political preference, it would be really wise to visit either place first.