DMM Pivot belay device

Optimistic wrote:In regards to lowering BTW, with the atc guide it seems a munter backup is recommended for lowering, I would imagine I'd do that with the Pivot too. I personally know someone who has been dropped and injured because the backup belay method was skipped with the atc guide. So two handed with either device, in my opinion.

I agree with you always have a back up while lowering you need something to prevent failure if you go hands free...but DMM pivot to my knowledge can lower someone while in guide mode, so hypothetically If you let go of the carabiner thats camming the pivot while lowering it would automatically lock up defaulting back to guide mode with climber strand on top...if that's what it really does what is the point of a back up?

Used mine all ice season, and works like a charm with my skinny 7.8 ropes as well. Really didn't notice any difference in catching, rapping, or lowering; was just like using a single.

Another vote for the Pivot. Really digging this device!

Just got my pivot and can't wait to use it ! Will update after few day of use

Brian Abram wrote:Provided there is little rope drag, is it easy enough to pull slack through the Pivot one handed?

I love my Pivot, but no. I don't think any guide-mode tube style device will allow this easily due to the nature of the devices. You're asking two ropes to move in opposite directions (in on top and out at the bottom, if you can picture it) while rubbing, with the weight of however much rope remains to the follower. Part of what pulling up slack first does is open up some space for the ropes to run without contact.

That said, it is definitely no harder to reel in slack in guide mode on this than my old BD ATC-Guide. Not sure if it's any easier.

OK had a few days climbing with my pivot and I LOVE it ! Guide mode is super easy and my partner and I messed around with the lowering and it was very easy and controlled I recommend it.

NICE... sounds like the device to get. moved to texas and climbing is no where near what AZ had to offer me. but i still find myself giving slack in the system while in guide mode. slack is needed for various reasons. but it looks like a solid buy and it will replace my Trango B52

Love it! DMM really has built its reputation on having the ability to take commonly used gear designs and figure out what could make them better, the pivot is a testimony to this.

Might have to give this a closer look. Sounds pretty darn nice. I have had great luck with everything DMM, so why not this?

I love my pivot, imo it handles better than any other tube device I have used. The only gripe I have with it is rapping can be really slow at the start, not sure why. It helps a little to flip it over to the non grooved side.

I think one of DMM videos talks about flipping it over to cut the friction out.

Even though guides may be lowering their clients full pitches without any kind of backup, I'd be very cautious about trying to imitate this without a lot of practice and experience. I have a pivot and like it, but it will fully release a hanging climber just as easily and suddenly as any of the other devices.

The fact that the pivot provides a shorter lever arm and so requires less torque to lift the device does make it less likely that a big effort to break the initial lock will "overshoot" and completely drop the second. But this can certainly still happen---I'd make damn sure the brake strand is Muntered to a carabiner on the belay loop before trying any kind of substantial lower, most especially when first using the device.

^ +1

Tried the munter backup after your post rgold and really like it. So much simpler & faster than the redirect/Prussik deal. 'Popping' the device open is also so much easier with this device

If you end up using a munter, why bother with the guide mode in the first place. IMO belaying with a munter with an added carabiner to make it auto-blocking can offer the advantages of a plaquette device without some its drawbacks such as depending on its orientation, traverse into the belay, etc.

It locks up more reliably as long as you set it up correctly (munter on small HMS biner such as attache size, large HMS biner such as a rocklock for the autoblock) and the large biner can be removed if you need to lower your second without and faffery unweighting the belay device etc.

you don't always know when your going to have to lower someone, so it seems unnecessary to always use a munter incase you end up lowering. I would imagine your cord would become pretty twisted if this was your pitch to pitch practice.

I do use the autolocking munter every now and then though. works really well.

The munter really does not twist the rope unless it's weighted. The only issue I see with the ABM is the feeding friction... it's alot. A gigi is the shit when combined with the grgri

eli poss wrote:If you end up using a munter, why bother with the guide mode in the first place. IMO belaying with a munter with an added carabiner to make it auto-blocking can offer the advantages of a plaquette device without some its drawbacks such as depending on its orientation, traverse into the belay, etc. It locks up more reliably as long as you set it up correctly (munter on small HMS biner such as attache size, large HMS biner such as a rocklock for the autoblock) and the large biner can be removed if you need to lower your second without and faffery unweighting the belay device etc.

The AB Munter doesn't work well if you are bringing up two seconds, which is one of the situations guide plates are used for.

rgold wrote:I have a pivot and like it, but it will fully release a hanging climber just as easily and suddenly as any of the other devices. The fact that the pivot provides a shorter lever arm and so requires less torque to lift the device does make it less likely that a big effort to break the initial lock will "overshoot" and completely drop the second.

Releasing a guide plate is largely binary. Thus I would hardly call it overshooting.

Accidents of out of control lowering have occurred because people clearly don't understand how their belay device operates.

rgold wrote:I'd make damn sure the brake strand is Muntered to a carabiner on the belay loop before trying any kind of substantial lower, most especially when first using the device.

Why not just ensure that the brake strand is in the braked position? Not that the munter isn't a perfectly acceptable alternative.

That's a good looking fella in the forefront of your picture Parrish.
Are you gonna get a Pivot then? I was considering one too, lemme know if you do

yea he is a RAD DUDE FOR SURE. I have been thinking about getting one since they were released. My b52 disappoints on some aspects and ill let you know if i get one and how it works out.