Black Diamond Fuel

I am interested on purchasing a pair of Black Diamond Fuel tools, but there is surprisingly little on the internet about them. I've held them and like the feel, but I've never climbed on them. I have climbed extensively on Trango Raptors, Cassin X-All Mountains, BD Cobras, and Cassin X-Dreams. How do the Fuels compare?

There's not a lot about them because there's not a lot of people using them. Nothing compares to the x-dreams in my opinion. The fuels are nice, sure, but they have nothing going for them. What I mean is, unless the fuel for some reason feels amazing to you, there's no reason to get them. The nomics and the x-dreams are the two best all around tools on the market in my opinion. Cobras are a great choice if your only focused on ice/alpine.

Max Forbes wrote:Nothing compares to the x-dreams in my opinion.

My favorite for ice cragging for sure. They'd probably be a nightmare in the alpine but if you're getting ready to go hop on a favorite WI4 they're fantastic.

I've used the Nomics, X-Dreams and Fuels. They are all great tools with strengths in different places. You can't go wrong with any of these tools. Originally I swung the Fusions but sold this to buy the Fuels and I'm very satisfied.

Compared to the other tools mentioned, the Fuels have a much heavier shaft. I couldn't believe how much weight is in the shaft on those things. So if you're a heavy climber looking for a strong tool for aggressive drytooling, that's a plus. If you're not, well...

Gunkiemike wrote:Compared to the other tools mentioned, the Fuels have a much heavier shaft. I couldn't believe how much weight is in the shaft on those things. So if you're a heavy climber looking for a strong tool for aggressive drytooling, that's a plus. If you're not, well...

The fuels are lighter than the Fusions. I know some slender gents rocking the Fuels too.

Ya the Fuels feel way better than the Fusions in terms of balance IMHO. They are the heaviest of the 3 but they are slightly shorter than the Nomics and even more than the X-Ds. This compensates for the slightly extra weight and allows for good swing control.
The Nomics have the best balance.
The X-Dreams have the best pick for pure ice.
The Fuels have the best grip and strongest shaft.

None of these tools have anything bad going for them.

I've been swinging them for a few weeks.

They're a huge improvement over the Fusion for ice, even the Fusion w/ice pick. Going forward I'll probably interchange the Fuel and Cobra on ice depending on my mood. Both swing fairly "natural" for me. I love the handle on the Fuel/Fusion, more so than the Cobra or any other tool. Fusion all day on mixed terrain.

I have the X-Dream too and don't love it. The handle is a huge negative for me, one of the worst out there, and the balance feels off. I seriously can't understand why people would choose to climb on these. The pick is the one bright spot, slices into ice like butter.

The Nomic is still solid. If I did it over I'd probably own two Nomics, one for ice and one for mixed. Or the Nomic/Ergo combo. The Nomics are just so sweet on ice.

Never swung the Trango Raptor.

What was the question again?

I've only demo'd Fuels one day at an ice fest, so I don't have extensive experience with them, but I can compare them to my second generation Trango Raptors. I haven't climbed on the other tools, except 2nd gen (leashed) cobras, so I can't compare to the other tools.

I liked the feel of the Fuels, they felt good in the hand and swung well. I actually prefer the 2nd gen Raptor handles over the Fuel handles. The Raptor's feel a little roomier and the contours for your fingers feel nicer. The Fuels pinched my hands a little when I would flick my wrist. Not really uncomfortable, probably my fault for having terrible circulation and wearing thicker gloves. I can't compare to gen 1 Raptors, I heard those pinched the hands and hindered the wrist flick a bit too. I have XL gloves and perpetually cold hands, so the issues I had with the grip probably aren't universal.

The Fuel pick is better than the Raptor pick. I have the ice specific pick, not the mixed pick on my Raptors. The Fuel pick cleaned much more easily than the Raptor pick. The balance of the fuel felt similar to the Raptors with the pick weights off. I think the swing felt pretty similar to the Raptor, but like I said, I don't have a lot of mileage with the Fuels to compare.

Overall, I didn't think the Fuels were that amazing compared to the Raptors. Fuel definitely wins in the pick department. I'm still experimenting with filing to make the Raptors extract better, but comparing the stock tools the Fuels win that battle hands down. For me, Raptor wins the comfort/feel department. For the extra money, I don't think I would buy Fuel's over Raptors. Though, I am partial to the lime green, they are a sweet looking tool!

Matt,

Regarding Fuel handle... You can add spacers to the handle to alleviate the the "pinch". Since you demo'd the tool they probably didn't modify the grip each time somebody different used it. I don't think this is a fair assessment if the grip wasn't set correctly for your hand size.

alpinejason wrote:Matt, Regarding Fuel handle... I don't think this is a fair assessment

I don't think any review is fair. Threads like these give you an idea but everyone needs to try that fancy new gear for themselves. I used to be terrified of caning with my X Dreams due to what I read. I used to think I could never get up any ice with Fusions too. I found out both are sorta true but no reason to leave those tools in the closet.

alpinejason wrote: I don't think this is a fair assessment if the grip wasn't set correctly for your hand size.

You're right, I didn't have the option to put the spacers in, I actually didn't think about that until you mentioned it.

Spacers and pinch issue aside, the Fuel handle felt very plain. I prefer the feel of the Raptor finger grooves and the rubber they used.

Of course no review is fair. We're talking about how different people like different grips, no two people are the same. This is also why I said I only demoed the tool and don't have a lot of experience with it.

For those of you who own the fuel, have you had any issues with the handle coming loose after adding spacers? I added a single spacer in (total of 2), and had the handle loosen while on a climb. I threw some blue thread locker on the screw and after scouring the sheet included with the tool for a torque spec, just cranked it down till it was pretty damn tight.

When I inserted the space, the screw was resistant to going back in. I mean it caught easy enough but the Loctite was making the screwing in stiff. LOL. So you can't go by any torque settings. I put mine fairly tight and no problem. With the Fusions I had prior, I didn't tighten as much and no Loctite. They came loose within a couple days.

I'm loving the Fuels.

can anyone 3d print the spacers?  they are sold out on black diamond and i got a pair second hand that is missing a few small parts..

Gabriel Kruszynski wrote:

can anyone 3d print the spacers?  they are sold out on black diamond and i got a pair second hand that is missing a few small parts..

Came here for the spacers as well! Any luck finding some?

Jason you could just make your own out of a few pieces cut out of a cutting board 

Not that this pertains to much but I just got a set of dark machines this year. I recently have spent a season on nomics and several on the raptor. I really like the dark machines. I think the primary grip is the best on the market. I really prefer the simple grip instead of dealing with spacers or finger grooves and all that. It’s a light tool but the balance and swing is good. Also the huge hole in the head is great for clipping things instead of the tinny petzl one. 

ZT G wrote:

Jason you could just make your own out of a few pieces cut out of a cutting board 

My partner and I (has fuels too) are going to try out 3d printing first, then I noticed the NL black diamond site has them in stock and I know folks in the NL that could ship it to me, haha

I can print some spacers. DM me 

Joseph W. Dutton wrote:

Not that this pertains to much but I just got a set of dark machines this year. I recently have spent a season on nomics and several on the raptor. I really like the dark machines. I think the primary grip is the best on the market. I really prefer the simple grip instead of dealing with spacers or finger grooves and all that. It’s a light tool but the balance and swing is good. Also the huge hole in the head is great for clipping things instead of the tinny petzl one. 

Sir this is not the hot takes thread please place your replies in the appropriate thread thank you