aliens vs. friends

So Im still building up my first Trad rack and Im working on getting a single set of pretty much everything so Im confident I can go anywhere and have what I need.

So what do you think, for a small cam, is more versatile/important to have first in a good rack... set of helium friends, set of original Aliens or something else?

Man you are going to get a varied response to this question. The reality is that whatever you buy is probably going to be what you end up liking and getting used to. Personally I would get the helium

I have the Wild Country Zeros for my small cams and I like them.

Aliens! X4s are nice too. I have used metolius for years but think I'm ready to move on.

I have a rack of CCH Aliens that are my favorite. Unfortunately, I have heard and read of the new Fixe Aliens not being anywhere close to the same quality, but I don't have any and can't say for sure. X4s would be my next choice, couple I have used seemed like they would be good alternative. Totems are another good one thats out there, I've never used one, but have only heard good things about them, except the price.

I prefer my mastercams over my small heliums. But then I also prefer my small Dmm 4cu's over heliums too, so get whatever floats yo boat.

Aliens. friends are nice in the larger sizes, but really lack in 1/4"-5/8" sizes. IMO, aliens are the best small cam, x4's are pretty good if you want to support a US company that ships production overseas so they dont have to pay US wages.
OK rant over.
buy black-red in aliens, and 1.25 friend and up to a 5 and you'll be psyched

This is why I love this forum, because it does give you such a variety of responses. Given I did ask a pretty general question but I had never heard of totem or even bothered to look up dragon cams before so for that I thank you.

The X4's do look mighty tasty and I will keep in mind the sizes if I do choose to split up a set between different the brands I asked about. CHEERS YALL!

I'm pretty convinced that some of my friends are aliens....

It would be nice to know what kind of rock and weather conditions you prefer to climb, and whether or not you have any aid climbing aspirations.

I think in the larger sizes (off fingers and up), technical considerations are less important than the subjective feel of the the piece. In smaller sizes, head width, cable design, camming angle, etc. come into play.

For climbing here in Montana, I'll usually carry C3s and Totems as my small cams. They fit into strange small openings, don't freeze up much, and are easy to place with gloves.

If I'm getting in aiders, I'll bring as many (mostly offset) Aliens or Totem basics as I can find. They just work. I'll supplement with regular Totems and C3s because they work in different situations.

I haven't used X4s, but I wouldn't hesitate to carry them in place of Aliens. I found Zeros to be a little funky, but they aren't bad. I think I'd like them more if they came in offset. I don't like U-stems for their incompatibility with gloves. I liked my offset and regular Masters, but they require more maintenence than anything else on my rack. I also think that the head is too wide to function like an Alien, and they freeze every time it gets wet and cold. I really wish my blue and black Aliens had internal springs, but I think some manufacturer has addressed that.

So, the question is "should I get a specialized small cam, or stick with the main set". With friends and camalots, they tend to have too wide a head for just about everything smaller than 1" (that's #1 friend, .5 c4, or red alien). I actually prefer the friend over the camalot in that size, and I use almost exclusively camalots. Metolius cams, as I recall, are the same way.

You should definitely get a more specialized small cam. The head width is crucial, and if you elect to get the main-set equivalent, when you get the special piece, you'll end up leaving the main-set piece in the closet more and more often. Buy right first, then double back if you need the spare.

I use zeroes because you can pull on the trigger asymetrically. Useful if you are trying to free a stuck cam. Despite that, I like the aliens, they just weren't for sale when I had money to spend on small cams. I have no experience with the X4s. I didn't care for the TCUs or Mastercams, but that has nothing to do with the cam, and everything to do with my gear setting practices.

Brian is right. Don't get small versions of a cam that's really designed to be larger. They just aren't well optimized for the nuances of small cracks.

Dobson: Im not particularly sure where I will be continuing my Trad climbing since I left my rack in MA, Im living in Nepal and I have applied for jobs in CA, AK, and OR. So thats why I want to be prepared for anything. And yeah that means getting to know some aid tech. too. I think Ill either try to do the road to the nose guide book or try and develop my own book of big wall/alpine climbing stepping stones depending on where I land (but that means I do need a partner too or a belay bot... anyone know where to buy those?)

Brian: I do see your point in the design of specifically made small cams and will make sure to take that into consideration as well as the number off small cracks in the area during my next purchase.

The small friends and c4s (and zeros) have one significant advantage over aliens, x4s blue and smaller, tcus, etc ...

They are passively rated

Ive seen this save someones hide more than once with the cam in an internally flaring crack, or where the cam walked into a constriction

Also when you place such a cam in a mostly parallel crack that has a constriction at the bottom ... Its more stable than a nut as the springs hold it in better and is less likely to get pulled out by drag ... And its more bomber than say an alien which can umbrella if it walks a tad

Remember that in microcams a mm or two makes a world of difference

Carry other narrow headed cams of course

But dont write off the smaller c4s/friends

Those might the only micro cam placements that are "trustworthy" IMO ... Where its both a cam and a nut

Also the old aliens are easily use maintainable with either the kit they sell or simple pins ... I fixed a few last week ...

Any cam with kevlar wire youll likely need to send back to the manufacturer

;)

Mastercams tend to get gunked up in their action but if you clean them they are fine.

Wild Country Zeros are decent cams but their wires tend to crimp up and impede the action. The doubled sling idea for extension is mildly useful.

CCH is out of business, you'll be buying old aliens at likely inflated prices.

The Fixe version of the aliens is decent in my experience, I have the offsets and some regulars, though people say the Totem version is good too.

I like C3s a lot, the yellow is one of my favorite cams and they have a nice, narrow head width. I think this cam got a bad rep mainly because the high opening price they were sold at and the fact the trigger pull is 'hard'. Really, the trigger pull is negligible in practice. Trigger wire replacement is a snap with their kit as well.

The X4 I've only used in a larger (.75) size and didn't notice it as an advantage at that size. They look cool and have a narrow head width, probably a good cam.

Additionally, I happen to like some of the small cams designed like the "big cams" and dig Camelots all the way down to the .3 size.

Trango small cams are weird.

DMM U-stems are decent but have a bit of head width and a u stem for a smaller cam seems like a disadvantage.

Link cams are jingus, and probably moreso in their smallest size. The two remaining on my rack survive by the coincident mercies of my constricted economy and torpid nature.

Totem is supposedly going to make smaller offerings of their proprietary design? I have not used them in any size, so I am not aware how that will be though users of these cams claim they would suck rotten cheese off the devil's dick in order to get triples of them in any size. Trips in the totes, trips in the totes, they cry.

There are many small cam choices on the market nowadays, likely none is a make or break decision. I own a variety of small cams and they all get the job done, though I end up with a bit of a franken-rack effect. And remember, don't plug up your fingers.

Friends and metolius forever..Never let me down and really last.i think Aliens are TOO long and Camalots..well...

Wired Bliss also makes good stuff at great prices

john strand wrote:Friends and metolius forever..Never let me down and really last.i think Aliens are TOO long and Camalots..well... Wired Bliss also makes good stuff at great prices

John I always liked Wild Country Friends but, years ago all my "more experienced" partners only wanted to climb with Camalots. So I purchased the older C4 cams without the thumb loop and then to be different switched to DMM Dragon cams which was my version of a compromise. To this day when someone complains about Friends not being as good as BD, I always say it probably isn't the equipment but the climber (lol). For small cams I do like the Metolius, in the past when Aliens were 1st made I liked them for small cams.