Top Rope Solo Rope Advice

I am still researching all of this and it looks like the better method is actually tie two eights at the center point then equalize everything at the anchors. This serves to isolate the two strands. If one fails you have the other.

Shouldn't a single do that as well. Isn't that why we use an 8 for trad anchors, it adds redundancy

You only have redundancy below the eight not above it between the eight and the anchor. You could also tie a double eight and then attach that to the anchor.

C Ross wrote:You could also tie a double eight and then attach that to the anchor.

This is what I do on short routes 90% of the time. All you need are two lockers and the rope (for a two bolt anchor).

If there are rap rings and I have enough rope, I'll thread the rings and then tie an eight / butterfly below it and clip that to the anchor. This way it's pre-rigged to rap down after the last lap.

Tim Meehan wrote: One device that does both fairly well, but in my experience not so freely, is a Silent Partner, which uses a rolling clove hitch on a centrifugal clutch thingy. Silent partner can also be used for descending, but it's not the best for the job in my experience. Plus it is heavy, expensive, and not made anymore.

Correct me if i'm wrong. I don't have a Silent Partner, but I was under the impression that It should not be used for Top Roping (only lead solo) since it doesn't lock until the rope gets up to a certain speed, it will let you drop some distance before catching you.

In fact I remember a video of someone testing the SP on top rope. I'll see if I can find it.

I Found the video
youtube.com/watch?v=w6TIa0g…

The test seems like it may be flawed. The weight was only 30lbs (yes I know that won't affect how quickly it falls, but could affect other things), plus the rope was too skinny. So maybe the video doesn't prove anything.

Static

I fell on a brand new 9.8 dynamic rope (human belayer but she was on top it, no slack she had real good belay ) 

I still stretched far enough to hit a ledge like 10 feet under me and break a leg. I won't lie and say I know all the science behind static versus dynamic but on that 9.8 dynamic I felt like I was on a rubber band! 

I'll take the jolt from a static any day over a rubber band. Now this is admittley coming from a 1 year novice just relating my experience. Many people here been climbing lots longer and know the science. 

I just remember she and I looking at each other like "WTF just happened why did it stretch so much" After that all i remember is 3 mile hike with ablout 5 inchs of tape over bottom of leg and ankle....but I friggin made it out on my own.

Very good thread BTW as I am getting ready to rope solo since i have no partner anymore.

You should check w/ whether Petzl recommends mini-traxing on a static. You have the risk of something not feeding, building a loop, then falling hard onto a static. I've never noticed any wear on my lead rope (I tie it in the middle). 

I am preparing to set my first top rope solo and am planning to use a camp lift as my primary and a kong duck as the backup.  Plan is a bfk with dual lockers and dual eights on bight to the lockers on my dynamic rope.  Anyone see a problem with this?

cyclestupor wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong. I don't have a Silent Partner, but I was under the impression that It should not be used for Top Roping (only lead solo) since it doesn't lock until the rope gets up to a certain speed, it will let you drop some distance before catching you. In fact I remember a video of someone testing the SP on top rope. I'll see if I can find it.

In my experience, that's not the case - I've fallen plenty with my Silent Partner on toprope and always been stopped quickly; you can google the manual as well and see that it describes how to TR with it for what that's worth.

My biggest complaint is that it's bulky; I haven't used other devices but it can get cumbersome at times.  Also, I've all but give up on lowering with it as there's so little friction that it's rough on the hands; I rig an ATC off a runner to lower and keep the Silent Partner in line as my rappel backup.  That way it remains rigged up for another lap; it feeds rope through smoothly while lowering.

-Hamish

John Kelly wrote:

Static

"I fell on a brand new 9.8 dynamic rope"

"I won't lie and say I know all the science behind static versus dynamic but on that 9.8 dynamic I felt like I was on a rubber band!"

"I'll take the jolt from a static any day over a rubber band."

I really hope you aren't suggesting someone lead climb on a static rope. If so, I'll say my obligatory "yer gunna die" (or at least break your back)

John Kelly wrote:

Static

I fell on a brand new 9.8 dynamic rope (human belayer but she was on top it, no slack she had real good belay ) 

I still stretched far enough to hit a ledge like 10 feet under me and break a leg. I won't lie and say I know all the science behind static versus dynamic but on that 9.8 dynamic I felt like I was on a rubber band! 

I'll take the jolt from a static any day over a rubber band. Now this is admittley coming from a 1 year novice just relating my experience. Many people here been climbing lots longer and know the science. 

I just remember she and I looking at each other like "WTF just happened why did it stretch so much" After that all i remember is 3 mile hike with ablout 5 inchs of tape over bottom of leg and ankle....but I friggin made it out on my own.

Very good thread BTW as I am getting ready to rope solo since i have no partner anymore.

YGFD

Ken Carrara wrote: Does anyone have experience with the Kong Duck or the Kong 802 backup? I am looking for something without teeth, but maybe I am being overly cautious. I would also like the device to go up and down freely without having to pull rope. In a perfect world, it would also descend but that is probably asking too much. any suggestions? DMM Buddy Petzl Rescucender Kong - duck and or 802 Camp - Something

I use the kong backup. It is awesome. Have used toothed ascenders before...never again. i tr at my project limit with it.  Ascension devices are for doing laps well below your limit in my opinion.  Surprised the kong or camp gremlin aren't more popular but probably just the cost

OP said rope solo let me find Kilpatricks page where he says use static if one rope scenario. Most articles say use static as primary ascent if single rope setup with two devices, which I am using axion and ascender. If using two ropes second should be dynamic, with backup auto belay on it. I'm not making this shit up this coming off of respectable mags and articles and climbers and even Petzel.

So if he's on one rope with a primary and a backup device they say static. If he's using two they say primary ascent goes on static backup is dynamic rope. He's on auto belay device traxion or some auto belay device he's not clipping anything nor placing pro so he's not taking a lead fall rope solo.

Watch some vids of  people testing there micro trax or whatever auto belay device they have on a static rope, coming off the rock on purpose for the test. They go.......nowhere no jolt nothing. Now if leading for real, and my last clip was 10 feet below me, and i reached up for my next clip 5 feet above me (i know not supposed to just example), and missed clip and fell, damn sure I'd want be tied into a dynamic rope...and have a good belayer too give me a hop! You are absolutely right right regular sport or trad lead you want dynamic.

We're talking two totally different scenarios. And like I said compared to you and most I'm a rook but I have been buried in rope solo reading, vids and Kilpatricks book and blog. Took early pension buyout after 20 years, so looking for another job, sort of lol, but right now just climbing and reading my azz off. 

Robert, thanks for the encouragement bud, appreciate it. Yeah we're all gonna die someday. I may crash my plane, or fall in a crevice off piste skiing. Or my avalanche chute might not deploy, or I may kill myself getting crushed on some reef or rocks surfing over stuff i should not surf over, or ascend too fast from a deep dive, or get whatever it was that was on those bad tomatoes and die from that. 

Climbing is not the only risky sport out there guys, but that's why we share info, take instruction, read, practice, practice, practice some more. You can't elimnate risk, but you can mitigate it. Man I went way offline, lol. Sorry. But your points are well taken and I know they are meant to prevent me from getting hurt.

Seriously thank you.

FWIW, if you're weighting your rope (and you should be, at least for the devices I've used) some of the stretch of the rope should be played out already. I use a 9.8mm Mammut Eternity Classic, doubled at the middle with a figure eight. It has a definite stretch when I'm tying in my backpack (which is what I use to weight the rope) but when I fall the total fall distance is only 1 or 2 feet, including stretch. It's not a new rope, but it's definitely still got lots of stretch before it's loaded.

Read down the article introduction to #1 Ten Easy Steps To Mini Traxioning quote

"1. Anchor a nice, beefy static rope to a bombproof anchor point below the lip of the crag. (A static line limits stretch and will stand up to the toothed cams of the Mini Traxion better than a dynamic rope. Note that the Mini Traxion is designed for ropes from 8mm to 13mm.) You don’t want your rope running from an anchor back over the lip and then down the face, as it can abrade or cut when weighted at this 90-degree angle. In many cases, this might mean rapping down to an anchor first and fixing your rope again from there."

The 5th word from left first line not including "1" does say "static" right? Have my Wal Mart readers (3 for $12.99) betrayed me or do I still read properly?

This is what frustrates me. You think you have it and then bring up another article and it says the opposite. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

This is an image from the August 2016 issue of climbing mag. The article was about using TR solo techniques for following big routes to save time and energy of repeatedly hauling up rope and belaying partners on every pitch. It talks about using two devices on one rope rather than two ropes.  

Here is a pic of the whole article. You’ll need to zoom in to read it.

I

I can tell you with confidence that my system with dynamic ropes works, because I've taken falls on it and it caught me. But I suspect there are people who use static ropes who would tell you the same. I also suspect you could find people who died or got injured climbing with both systems.

Ultimately, I think instead of looking for someone to tell you authoritatively whether you should use a static or dynamic rope, you need to learn the pros and cons of each system and decide for yourself which you think is safer. You're the one who falls if your system fails. You're responsible for your own safety.

EDIT: I said too much.