Dogbones

What is the better dogbone material for sport draws, nylon or dyneema?

The majority of the sport climbers I see have draws with the wide nylon dogbones, curious why?

For grabbing onto (if you're into that kind of thing) and not twisting quite as much when you clip, 1" nylon like petzl spirit and BD 1" nylon

Marginally lighter weight dyneema.

As the other reply said, to grab. It is so much easier to hold onto a fat draw than a thin one whilst trying to clip when working a project.

Unless you are doing big, alpiney goodness where a couple oz counts, thick nylon is the way to go. More durable, way easier to grab when cleaning/working a route, stiffer for slightly easier clipping, and cheaper. People who try to make their sport racks ultralight make me giggle.

I go with fat nylon for durability/longevity.

I make people giggle with my dyneema ones =p

I use em equally for sport and trad, often multi

For general use for all types and lengths of climbing i always suggest dyneema

For pure sport, get nylon

Giggle giggle giggle

;)

When you guys are saying grab, do mean grab it to clip it or grab it after its clipped to help you up the route?

Either but I mostly see people grabbing them to clip.

bearbreeder wrote:I make people giggle with my dyneema ones =p I use em equally for sport and trad, often multi For general use for all types and lengths of climbing i always suggest dyneema For pure sport, get nylon Giggle giggle giggle ;)

That's why I'm asking, all I have is dyneema draws and trad draws, went to popular sport crag and was like the ugly duckling, just curious if I missed a memo or something about using nylon

William Kramer wrote: That's why I'm asking, all I have is dyneema draws and trad draws, went to popular sport crag and was like the ugly duckling, just curious if I missed a memo or something about using nylon

did you climb any less hard because of your draws?

if not dont worry about it

while nylon is a bit more durable and easy to grab ... you wont climb any worse because yr using da deadly dyneema

non-intrawebz climbers use what they have and spend the money to go climb more, not what looks cool or what others think they should have

;)

not short sport dogbones but an interesting vid and info nonetheless: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/h…

Dan Allard wrote:not short sport dogbones but an interesting vid and info nonetheless: dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/h…

irrelevant as you have a dynamic rope in the system ... nor are you taking factor 2 falls in static materials

note that DMM sells da deadly dyneema draws



;)

bearbreeder wrote: irrelevant as you have a dynamic rope in the system ... nor are you taking factor 2 falls in static materials note that DMM sells da deadly dyneema draws ;)

Yep. :)
Agreed that for sport bones not an issue and to follow up with your other comment and others - as far as dogbones go, doesn't matter.

Just wanted to offer the education on materials at the most basic level. :)

Pretty much every company does - almost harder to find pure nylon these days, frankly.

Like the bloke in the video says himself, not to dismiss dyneema - just education.

What i got out of the video posted was that pro will break before either the dyneema or nylon will. Got me wondering however, what is the usual failing point for the typical bolt on a sport route?

William Kramer wrote:What i got out of the video posted was that pro will break before either the dyneema or nylon will. Got me wondering however, what is the usual failing point for the typical bolt on a sport route?

It would have to rock breaking / bolt pulling out right? I mean on a sport route (or any route, really) you're not taking massive whippers that are going to literally break a bolt (assuming reasonable bolts, not some homemade mank from the 70s). Maybe if a bolt was seriously worn (either from use or conditions e.g. Sea cliffs) but even then...

William Kramer wrote:What i got out of the video posted was that pro will break before either the dyneema or nylon will. Got me wondering however, what is the usual failing point for the typical bolt on a sport route?

The lesson you SHOULD have learned is "do not put yourself in a position where you could reasonably take a fall attached directly to a static sling attached directly to an anchor point." And as pointed out, this lesson is (almost) completely irrelevant for sport draw materials, since this should (almost) never be a realistic scenario anyway while climbing sport.

Nylon gives a touch more room for error in this case, but it's an error that should not be made in the first place. "Not putting yourself in that position" can mean some combination of using a more dynamic component (i.e. rope/clove hitch) or just making damn sure not take a drop if you are using a static one.

As for why you are going to be grabbing draws, the most important reason is cleaning sport routes, particularly those that are overhanging or wandery. Way easier to clean if you can comfortably hold onto the damn thing. On the way up, it doesn't matter much what draws I use. It's going home where it makes the biggest difference.

William Kramer wrote:Got me wondering however, what is the usual failing point for the typical bolt on a sport route?

I can't support this with facts, but my guess is the most common geat failure is breaking of nose-hooked o cross-loaded biners. I've never heard of a dogbone failing in a true sport climbing scenario (yes, I know about that odd (near) "body weight failure" in the gym). Likewise I've never heard of anyone breaking a decent bolt. Sea cliff corrosion is a real issue though if, ya know, you're at a sea cliff.

I like my dmm pro wires (dyneema bones on light wire gates). They are light and strong, but not the best to grab onto. Which is good incentive for me to try and not french free past any move. But a pain when I have to.

On the other hand, they are great for trad; light and low profile.

I really don't think the strength difference applies to dog bones (by the nature of their function). It's more a concern when shock loading slings when in direct.

edit: I guess I should read a thread before I post. Every point I mentioned was already covered.

shoo wrote: The less you SHOULD have learned is "do not put yourself in a position where you could reasonably take a fall attached directly to a static sling attached directly to an anchor point."

Yes it is the lesson at the core of the video, but I was a jackass when I was a little kid and did a lot of really stupid things, learned things like falling on static stuff just plain hurts, so why use static sling when you are already tied in on a stretchy rope? Very good video though, interesting about the fail points.

Where I'm at with the whole subject is it doesn't really matter what your doggones are for sport routes since it would be really hard to create enough KN to break any of them.

What this has done, is made me wonder about the times you are climbing above a piece of pro and using a 48 inch sling as a draw. Would that not make a factor 2 fall on that sling?

And even more into it, with the knots breaking on the slings, would that apply to when you do an alpine draw and unclip one strand so you can extend it out and it is now girthed around a carabiner, will that girth hitch weaken it like a knot?

Seth Kane wrote: You wouldn't take a factor two on the sling unless you had screwed up and clipped it to your harness instead of the rope. Otherwise you have the rope in the system to absorb the force. And there's ways to rack alpine draws that don't put a girth hitch on the biner when undone.

Get that, no factor 2 with the rope in the system, and also back to wires on a nut will fail before the sling, the knot test in the video link posted just got me wondering.

What other ways do you do an alpine draw?

William Kramer wrote: What other ways do you do an alpine draw?

Clip a crab on each end of the sling, and then just pass one biner through the other, and clip the loop you just made.

To extend, unclip one biner and reclip into any strand.

Like this: sietovanderheide.blogspot.c…

video: youtube.com/watch?v=AERzcQ7…