Thoughts on a potential issue with Beals 'Unicore' design

well, first off ill just go ahead and say 'im gonna die' and 'im an inexperienced gumby chuff tard who needs to not climb outside til i can crush 5.7' of sorts

second off, this happened to my rope last week

me and some buddies put a toprope on a 12+ at the cibola area at T wall, the crux sections where beneath a sloper-y-edged roof (3 feet of horizontal?), i went 4th (and last) and fell a handfull of times at the crux (like the other 3 had) as i finished the rest of the route. after cleaning, and while being lowered, i noticed 6 core shots in my rope about 15' above me (where the rope was rubbing over the roof when i had fallen)

All falls that were taken we 'kicked out' from the wall a little so as not to put to much stress on the rope over the lip. it was a very subtle angle at the apex (roof) between anchor and climber. i aint to bright but something like 170 degrees?

theory is: while 3 other people had also fallen on this rope multiple times while underneath the roof, the rope did not get damaged from falling until i tied in, because by then some 'kinks' had wound up tighter on the climbers end. the rope was 'tighter' because the sheath and the core could not move separately, (like if one where to wind a rubber band up, then pull on it, there'd be even more force involved on the rubber itself because of the winding) making my rope more susceptible to damage because not only was I falling on it, but it also was 'wound up', add a little bit of tension over some rock and there yah go.

Also when i take the now-cutoff end of rope and twist it a little the core shots close up better. looking like the rope was almost made with kinks in it, when i unkink and straighten the end they fluff out and do not sit right. (in other words it is very apparent that the rope was wound tight when fallen on and the sheath was damaged)

the rope is a beal 9.1 joker unicore, ive owned and used it alot for about 8 months now, it has no other signs of wear or tear

im not saying that beals Unicore is bad technology, it just seems that if the core and sheath could have moved separately the kinks would not have wound so tightly, and the damage would not have happened? im really not sure...
im just curious if anybody else has had issues with this, or any insight as to why this may have happened (im expecting to get destroyed for being somehow unsafe and inexperienced...so lay it on thick, thanks)

For starters, manufacturers strive for as little sheath slippage as possible. Slippage leads to problems.

I'm going to go with "don't toprope on a 9.1mm"

Greg: can you elaborate more? Do you think it is possible that because they was no slippage this happened? (Obvious answer is unkink rope before climbing on it.. Problem solved)

Matt: if its not safe for top roping...what is it safe for? I would think a lead fall has more potential for bad things to happen than top roping? Or do you mean any rope 9.1 or smaller is unsuitable for climbing?

If you tension a rope and hit an edge, you can damage any rope design. Yes, clearly that edge was sufficient enough to cause the problem. I've blasted through 11 mil with only a few passes in testing. Thicker ropes help, but only so much.

I mean skinny ropes aren't as durable. Repeated abrasion via TRing is when fat ropes shine. Save the skinny's for leading.

ParkerKempf wrote:Greg: can you elaborate more? Do you think it is possible that because they was no slippage this happened? (Obvious answer is unkink rope before climbing on it.. Problem solved) Matt: if its not safe for top roping...what is it safe for? I would think a lead fall has more potential for bad things to happen than top roping? Or do you mean any rope 9.1 or smaller is unsuitable for climbing?

might be worth reading this:

outdoorgearlab.com/Climbing…

obviously no tried and true 100% of the time rule for ropes and diameter, but mega-skinny ropes aren't generally workhorses, and a full season out of a 9.1 (including top roping with it) doesn't seem out of the ordinary. There's a reason not everyone climbs with 9mm ropes (and it's not always the price)

Matt N wrote:I'm going to go with "don't toprope on a 9.1mm"

I completely agree with not toproping on a skinny rope, but your damage looks like it occurred over an edge. Hard to believe it is a defective rope; looks more like it was loaded over an edge. Maybe with a little swinging/sawing action while loaded over the edge.

Ewe r dewing it rong.

FrankPS wrote: I completely agree with not toproping on a skinny rope, but your damage looks like it occurred over an edge. Hard to believe it is a defective rope; looks more like it was loaded over an edge. Maybe with a little swinging/sawing action while loaded over the edge.

Exactly

- its not a sheath slippage problem, manufacturers dont want shealth slippage in general

- you were TRing on a 9.1mm rope that is meant for hard sport redpoints and/or alpine fast and light where you dont hang on the rope ... do NOT TR on skinny ropes, you will kill em faster simply because of a lower total sheath thickness/weight generally

- even on rounded edges if you were handgdogging on a climb and the rope keeps rubbing over and over again in the same spots when you try to make the moves ... ANY rope will have a hard time with this ...

if you are going to be TRing things you keep on falling on .. get a nice thick 10mm+ rope

thats all there is to it

;)

Yup, you killed it. Time to buy a new cord.

Ain't rock climbing fun?

Tugg, eye ent kweer, butt aye luff ewe!
And 9.1 work'n a TR project? To quote the Beal speel, " You probably won’t want to work out the moves with this ultralight rope, but it’s a great choice when you don’t want to drag an anchor behind you on redpoint attempts." This from here
backcountry.com/beal-stinge…. Even the manufacturer says don't project with the 9.4. ANd you w/a 9.1!?!
And yep, time for a new rope. I project with the edelweiss
edelweiss-ropes.com/en/cont…

had mine 3 years, 2,000+ laps (i won't call them pitches, when 6 guys spend all day on one line working it) but you get the idea, this thing sucks big time to lead on, stiff, thick, no handle. But workhorse? Still in my quiver.

Looks like a classic case of hanging on a skinny rope over an edge.

It always sucks to loose ropes.. But I would say that the UniCore worked real well!

I have tested some of these ropes. They do hold up well overall. No rope will withstand
that abuse though.

One cool thing to see, which in a way save you, is the core shots looks.
If this was a regular non UniCore rope, you would have had the core of the
rope all exposed (pulled away, slipped away) from the sheath. On the UniCore you
had no sheath slippage, which made it safer for you on top rope not knowing that
the thing was shot! By not exposing the "core" of the rope (because the sheath is sown in)
kept you safer!

Just some food for thought.
Also if it makes you feel any better… I had a new rope (one month old) get nuked on
a top rope at Vedauwoo. Total core shot right in the F'ing middle!

ParkerKempf wrote:Greg: can you elaborate more? Do you think it is possible that because they was no slippage this happened?

Actually, I suspect sheath slippage may have contributed to your core shots. You mentioned the rope kinked up. This has happened to me before with a Beal rope. The sheath is braided and if it is no longer bonded, it can kink the rope as the sheath gets pushed in one direction which is what likely happened as your friends were falling before you. The kinked spots were much more susceptible to abrasion. And if you look at the damaged areas the are very short areas. Yet, in a fall even on top rope, the rope will stretch at least a few feet. Therefore, these abrasion areas would be longerif it realy was a result of sharp rock. A fatter rope with the same kinks would have had the same result. So the comments about a fatter rope are missing the point. Although a fatter rope has a greater margin of error.

With my rope, I was able to force this extra sheath to the rope end with some rappels and pulling the rope all the way through the belay device. Then I cut off this extra sheath (about 5 inches) and re melt the rope end. The kinks were gone from them on.

Greg D wrote: Actually, I suspect sheath slippage may have contributed to your core shots. You mentioned the rope kinked up. This has happened to me before with a Beal rope. The sheath is braided and if it is no longer bonded, it can kink the rope as the sheath gets pushed in one direction which is what likely happened as your friends were falling before you. The kinked spots were much more susceptible to abrasion. And if you look at the damaged areas the are very short areas. Yet, in a fall even on top rope, the rope will stretch at least a foot or two or more. A fatter rope with the same kinks would have had the same result. With my rope, I was able to force this extra sheath to the rope end with some rappels and pulling the rope all the way through the belay device. Then I cut off this extra sheath (about 5 inches) and re melt the rope end. The kinks were gone from them on.

The sheath and core are bonded together on Unicore ropes. Maybe the rope was just twisted from crag use? What would the rope look like if it had not been a Unicore?

Ray Pinpillage wrote: The sheath and core in Unicore ropes are bonded together. Maybe the rope was just twisted from crag use?

I understand that. But I suspect it slipped anyway or some other factor led to the outer fibers moving relative to the inner fibers leading to a curly que effect that I have seen before.

I was bonded to this hot chick as I was dry humping her leg at a cocktail party once. Not all bonds are permanent despite what manufactures say.

^Classic!

Kinks/twists might have been due to improper uncoiling of the rope before first use.