Crampon for steep ice

I've been using Petzl Sarkens since day one, as a do it all crampon. But with the spirlock binding the strap digs into my ankle, and they feel better suited to lower angle stuff anyways. Now I'm searching for a pure ice climbing crampon to compliment them. Most of the climbing would be in Ouray and surrounding areas (WI4).

I've tried BD Stingers, and they climbed well but the front point stuck too far out in front of the boot to make for a comfortable stance, so I've ruled them out. Both the stingers and cyborgs seem to fit too far forward on the boots.

I'm looking at probably the G14, Rambo, and Petzl Lynx. I dont care about changing the mounting type on the lynx, as both my boots have front welts (Freney and Baruntse). A close look at the points on the lynx makes me think they are not much different than the sarkens for the first 1/4", and I question the durability of the points and front bails compared to grivel, but I don't have first hand knowledge. The G14 looks real nice but is a symmetrical front plate, and fits off center of the boot. I haven't seen the rambo, but it seems darn good and darn heavy.

I like the idea of replaceable front points and antibots, all else being equal.

Also, any reason I should just get the new-matic style instead of full step-in?

MyFeetHurt wrote:I've tried BD Stingers, and they climbed well but the front point stuck too far out in front of the boot to make for a comfortable stance, so I've ruled them out. Both the stingers and cyborgs seem to fit too far forward on the boots.

You know that Stingers and Cyborgs have adjustable toe bails, right? If you want the crampons to sit further back just move the bail forward a notch.

Yeah, I tried adjusting them in the store but sliced my knuckles open in the process, and resorted to just eyeballing what they would be like 1/4" shorter. Not ideal but oh well, at least I tried them on my boots. When I rented them, I'm pretty sure they were set to the shortest length.

The other brands had both adjustable bails and adjustable front point length, while I think the BD was limited to just the bail holes.

I bought the Lynx last year and have really been happy with them. Get the full step-in for sure.

I would be careful with G14, as some people find it, that front points are not protruding far enough. It might be best to check, how it looks to you. One other option to look at, is Cassin Blade runner. If the price fits you, that is.

MyFeetHurt wrote:Yeah, I tried adjusting them in the store but sliced my knuckles open in the process, and resorted to just eyeballing what they would be like 1/4" shorter. Not ideal but oh well, at least I tried them on my boots. When I rented them, I'm pretty sure they were set to the shortest length. The other brands had both adjustable bails and adjustable front point length, while I think the BD was limited to just the bail holes.

Lol.

MyFeetHurt wrote:Yeah, I tried adjusting them in the store but sliced my knuckles open in the process, and resorted to just eyeballing what they would be like 1/4" shorter. Not ideal but oh well, at least I tried them on my boots. When I rented them, I'm pretty sure they were set to the shortest length. The other brands had both adjustable bails and adjustable front point length, while I think the BD was limited to just the bail holes.

Yes, BD only adjustment on my version of the cyborg is the bail holes. I use pliers when screwing around with readjusting the bail.

The bails also suck from BD (too wide for my boot) like Dane at coldthistle complains about. The crampon moves left and right on my boot while walking.

Is there a good rule of thumb for how the secondary points need to be in front of the boot? The two issues I seem to have with BD is standing on my tip toes, and a toe bail that is too wide, as mentioned above. The bail can probably be replaced easily with a different brand.

Which leads me to my other question, are the grivel toe bails any good? The ones with the 270 degree loop seems like it would be very strong, but act like a big spring absorbing your kick.

GLD wrote: Yes, BD only adjustment on my version of the cyborg is the bail holes. I use pliers when screwing around with readjusting the bail. The bails also suck from BD (too wide for my boot) like Dane at coldthistle complains about. The crampon moves left and right on my boot while walking.

Number 1 - stop using pliers. That damages the bails, leading to work hardening, which can eventually cause them to fail. This is applicable in varying degrees to ALL manufacturer's wire crampon bails. The proper way to do it is place the crampons on their side on the floor, then loop a length of cord or dyneema under the bail, then use that to pull the bail up and out of crampon frame.

Number 2 - Yes, the BD bails are too wide in general, but you can still get a pretty good fit if you take the time to tweak it. I can get an excellent fit with my Sabertooths on a women's size 7 Nepal Evo, which is about as low profile as a toe can get.

MyFeetHurt wrote:Is there a good rule of thumb for how the secondary points need to be in front of the boot? The two issues I seem to have with BD is standing on my tip toes, and a toe bail that is too wide, as mentioned above. The bail can probably be replaced easily with a different brand. Which leads me to my other question, are the grivel toe bails any good? The ones with the 270 degree loop seems like it would be very strong, but act like a big spring absorbing your kick.

All manufacturers warn against replacing their bails with other mfgr's bails. Do so at your own risk. A satisfactory fit can usually be attained with the stock hardware on the Freney, the Baruntse should be even easier to fit.

The secondary points can't be adjusted, so I'm not sure I understand your question. Generally speaking, the secondary points should engage on the ice to give you a flat platform when your front points are penetrated.

The Grivel toe bails are good. The only downside to the loop is that it can get in the way when climbing mixed routes or drytooling, but it's a rarity. I climb mixed routes up to M7/M8 on my Rambo IVs and can't recall it being a problem. You'll note that Grivel is slowly moving away from the looped bails on their newer crampons like the G20/22.

Swap to the heal lock and get the Dartwin fronts:

ems.com/product/index.jsp?p…;emssrcid=PPC%3AgooPLAs%3A26607624508brandPetzl&utm_source=gooPLAs&utm_campaign=Product+Listing+Ads+-+Out+of+Trade&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CIL36t7G9LsCFeN_QgodklMAFQ

Jon H wrote: Number 1 - stop using pliers. That damages the bails, leading to work hardening, which can eventually cause them to fail. This is applicable in varying degrees to ALL manufacturer's wire crampon bails. The proper way to do it is place the crampons on their side on the floor, then loop a length of cord or dyneema under the bail, then use that to pull the bail up and out of crampon frame.

Good call on the cord or webbing, hadn't thought of that. Though I do have wood floor, maybe not a great idea. It is WAY easier in the field though.

However, BS on the work hardening. It's not getting machined. You also realize you're kicking with those things at ice and rock, a little hot sexy plier action isn't going to do anything.

Allen Sanderson wrote:Swap to the heal lock and get the Dartwin fronts: ems.com/product/index.jsp?p…;emssrcid=PPC%3AgooPLAs%3A26607624508brandPetzl&utm_source=gooPLAs&utm_campaign=Product+Listing+Ads+-+Out+of+Trade&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CIL36t7G9LsCFeN_QgodklMAFQ

This has crossed my mind from cost standpoint, but I haven't been able to look at the Dart series up close. They look to be darn close to the lynx, and get great reviews. I wonder if the performance is similar. I don't have enough time on monos yet to know if want monos or duals.

Take out a second on the house and buy Cassin Bladerunners.. Hands down the best crampon available right now.

Oh.. you want monos. Duals are for early season and WTF am I doing on this ice conditions.

If you having problems fitting your boots to your pons try offsetting the front bails..

Go Petzl Dart's or Grivel G-20's. Both climb steep, hard ice and mixed like a champ.

I have G20s and Stingers. They perform about the same as far as I can tell. The G20s have superior metal, but the front points on the Stingers are cheap. Probably sixes there.

The easiest way to adjust your front bails is to step on main part of the crampon and wrap the webbing from the rear part around the front bail. Just pull it sideways to give you the leverage you need. Make sure it's in the right orientation, it has a little flat bit to keep it from popping out when it's on your boot.

MyFeetHurt wrote: This has crossed my mind from cost standpoint, but I haven't been able to look at the Dart series up close. They look to be darn close to the lynx, and get great reviews. I wonder if the performance is similar. I don't have enough time on monos yet to know if want monos or duals.

I have both the darts and dartwins. Both are excellent poons. The Lynx is the combo and a bit heavier than the dart and dartwins. If you could only have one poon the Lynx would be a good option. Given that you already have something the dart/dartwin came to mind.

Getting used to monos is pretty easy. The point is just off center towards your big toe.

No idea if this is helpful to you, but I took this for a friend who is considering the Stingers. These are my old and new crampons, and they climb about the same for me (following up to W5, occasional easy mixed).

KathyS wrote: No idea if this is helpful to you, but I took this for a friend who is considering the Stingers. These are my old and new crampons, and they climb about the same for me (following up to W5, occasional easy mixed).

Actually it does help. Comparing my photos during the rental to this, I was able to figure out that I had them adjusted to have the longest front point (which was too long).

I guess I'm starting to lean towards the Lynx. Adjustable to dual or mono, adjustable front point length and front toe bail. I'll also add some BD heal levers to them. And if I get them from REI and I truly hate them I can take them back, not that I plan to do that. I try not to abuse their policy.

One thing I still dont like about Petzl is that their toe bails do not have the safety strap. I've never had a crampon pop off, but that is because I am on new-matic style 99% of the time. The front bail strap seems like a good idea but maybe it's not that important??

MyFeetHurt wrote: The front bail strap seems like a good idea but maybe it's not that important??

I've cut it off of every crampon I use. What good is it doing? Still have the ankle strap trimmed to fit. Absolutely unnecessary.

Well let's see if I can clear somthings up for you

Having climbed on just about every poon out there I still prefer the petzl darts over just about anything else climbs everything good enough for me and several peps I've converted , there fit is great the front point can stick out as far as it wants , makes no difference as they stick like glue to any piece of ice I've ever climbed .

I have very cold feet so when the temps are well below freezing I switch to my Bart's
Petzl darts with the BD front bail to fit my double plastic boots , it took a bit of hammering and stretching the bail to get them to fit and I've been climbing on t.hem for
5 + seasons now with not one worry or malfunction .( so here's where I call bullshit on not using pliers or a hammer !) heck I cannot tell you how many times I've had to mount poons on my boots then form the bails w/a hammer while there mounted to get the fit I want , and never ever once has it caused a bail to break , In fact I've never had one break in 20 years on ice climbing !

If the poons you like don't fit then make them fit , if that means changing, bastardizing, or swapping parts then do it !

Now any good mono and some of the duals will work for steep ice if there were no petzl darts then I'd go with Grivel third or fourth gen if you go w/the 4th gen then cut that stupid little secondary front point off it serves no usefull purpose ( like a big mole on a perfectly formed breast ) my all time favorite before the darts came out , but there heavier and stiff , now I like a little flex so the darts win out .) I'm not a fan of BD crampons they just don't work for me , the only exception is the saber tooth .
If I was to ever go back to dual points ( for what Ill never know ) I'd prolly still choose petzl or Grivel .

As for the strap it's a euro thing I keep mine on just because they never bothered me enought to not use them , it has on a couple of occasions saved my poon from flying off into the unknown when it came off and it does help lock in the heel lever .

If ur going to climb steep ice I'd also skip the new matic and stick with a front bail