Edelrid Mega Jul: Lowering Followers in Guide Mode...isn't following the manual dangerous?

So lowering followers on the BD guide ATC in GUIDE MODE is very dangerous if all you're doing is changing the angle of the belay device using the nose of a carabiner and you DO NOT HAVE a prussik to backup the lowering. (This is orders of magnitude more dangerous than not using a prussik to rappel, and I rarely rap with a prussik).

I heard this from a compelling source (an alpinist and professional guide) and from multiple fatal accidents in europe. Basically losing control of the follower as you lower is easy to do, and very hard to recover.

However, the manual in the Mega Jul recommends exactly this practice (that is unsafe on the BD guide). In the manual for the Jul, there is a picture of the belayer just using the nose of a carabiner to lower followers on it. Is this dangerous or is there something special about the Jul (I know you belay "upside" down using the device).

Here's an old thread discussing this issue and mentioning Petzl doesn't mention any redirects in their manual:

mountainproject.com/v/anyon…

with all these devices, its always good practice to have a higher redirect for the brake strand ... or have it muntered off your harness

i would assume the mega jul is no different ...

my mammut smart alpine instructions show the same lack of redirect/munter/prussik ... from personal practice i can tell you that it can open up very fast, and your climber could get dropped in an instant

IMO this is a real issue .... theres too many accidents from people lowering off autoblock without the proper practice or systems in place

here is one of the latest accidents ...

en.reddit.com/r/climbing/co…

i am a BIG fan of autoblock devices, especially for bringing up 2 people, to protect against rockfall, as an emergency ascender, etc ...

but theres WAY to many people who go off and start going off an belaying in guide mode without learning how to lower properly and safely

and even if they claim to "know' how to do it in theory ... the never or rarely practice it, and screw it up when they actually need to do it

;)

This gives me a reminder to brush up on lowering a follower. Sooner or later I'll end up bringing someone up who doesn't want to rap back to the ground.

I remember clipping an ATC (Not in guide mode) into the anchor then redirecting the brake strand. I think it was pretty easy to keep control. Heck the last time I lowered someone off the top of a climb it was my wife using 199.9 feet of an 8.5mm rope. I remember thinking if I have to pass this knot with a prussik, man WTF.. then I heard yelling and got the thumbs up from below. It was the first time she had seen two doubles tied together so Kathy declined to rappel. Haha.. I love the reaction you get from beginners who don't trust two ropes tied together with an overhand!

With the Reverso/BDguide I do the following:

Set up a munter on my belay loop with the brake strand of the rope, then fully "open" the Reverso with a biner or nut tool. Then you just lower with the munter, using the biner on the Reverso as a redirect. If you need/want both hands for the brake strand of the munter, you can put a biner on or above the masterpoint, then loop a sling through that biner. Clip one end to your harness and the other to the nose of the Reverso. Weight it and it pulls up the nose and releases the Reverso.

But I don't belay in autoblock mode when I know I'll be lowering someone. In fact, I hardly ever belay in AB mode anymore. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle. But it's nice to know what to do in case of emergency.