Keeping Aggressive Shoes Aggressive?

So I stepped up from my all around general use climbing shoes I learned to climb in and bought my first aggressive pair.

They're Scarpa Vapor V's, so they're pretty downturned. I do mostly gym climbing and even taking them off after just about every climb, the camber, or that downturn curve is quickly losing it's shape.

I'm wondering if there's anything I should be doing to keep that curve from flattening out as quickly. I've never read anything or seen anything, and a lot of the more seasoned climbers I've talked to don't seem to have an answer either.

Thanks!

Don't wear them every time you climb. Whether your feet sweat a lot or not, they get some moisture and get softer and lose their downturn. I rotate through several pairs. Don't wear on slabs or even vertical terrain. Only use them on steep outside projects (you know, the projects that actually matter!)... don't use them in the gym.... ever.

much of what makes an aggressive shoe feel aggressive is the construction/fit of the heel and structure in the arch area, which wont change much over time. Additionally a good resoler ought to be able to resole them such that they are nearly the same in shape in the toe as they were out of the box, so I wouldnt worry too much about it. They will flatten a touch, but thats part of the break in process, and generally I think you'll find if anything you'll like the way they climb more as they stretch out and break into your foot a bit better.

Ultimately they are climbing shoes, which are sadly kind of disposable, I'd keep climbing in them, if they get to a point you dont like, buy a new pair and use the ones you've got in the gym/warming up and only pull out the new pair when absolutely necessary.

Good advice here.

I want to reiterate that David said. If you like the feel of fresh shoes, save them for important climbs. I use my worst shoes in the gym. The gym is just practice; so unless you get paid to send plastic, save those edges for problems you care about.

Mike Kocha wrote:So I stepped up from my all around general use climbing shoes I learned to climb in and bought my first aggressive pair. They're Scarpa Vapor V's, so they're pretty downturned. I do mostly gym climbing and even taking them off after just about every climb, the camber, or that downturn curve is quickly losing it's shape. I'm wondering if there's anything I should be doing to keep that curve from flattening out as quickly. I've never read anything or seen anything, and a lot of the more seasoned climbers I've talked to don't seem to have an answer either. Thanks!

fuggetaboutit

Noticing you mostly gym climb, you could mostly use them for the problems/routes you feel you need them most for. Warm up and do your normal day to day circuits in your old shoes (providing they dont have toe holes and such yet) and just work things at your limit in the fast ones.

Or, to offer another perspective, shoes, like everything else, are meant to be used, worn and beaten up. An old cycling friend of mine used to use the phrase "it's a tool, not a jewel" a lot about nice bikes that guys were afraid to ride/push it on. They are built to hold lines through corners, get laid down, be tossed around when changing flats and such, but a lot of folks spend so much money on them they refuse to really push it for fear of scratching the paint. Get out, thrash the shoes, get them resoled, buy another pair, by a pair of REALLY down turned shoes, thrash those, the cycle continues. If the one thing you like about a pair of shoes goes away when they flatten a little and the edges get worn in a little they arent a very good pair of shoes.

If you want to keep your shoes aggressive, don't try to shame them when they are a little irritable around strangers. Also, when they yell out things like "I will destroy you!" to the route, just smile. Don't say, "Hey, chill out man" or something dismissive like that.

Did you buy them too large? The majority of climbers I see with aggressive shoes that have flattened bought their shoes too large, and without the toe curving to the tip, their shoes continue to flatten.

Aggressive shoes should have no air in them when they are on. Are they developing an upwards bulge just in front of the laces? That means they are probably too big.

Some shoes just don't stay aggressive well, the Scarpa Vapor V & Sportiva Miura lace are 2 examples. But yes, in general, you need to size aggressive shoes tight: the down turned is maintained with the shape & heel tension, not sole stiffness. In fact, I've had the best luck with Scarpa Mago & it's one of the softest lace ups: without the foot in there, you can bend & twist it whichever way you want. Tighten down the lace, however, I can climb 5.12 slabs ever after it's been thru a few resoles.

Don't use them or buy Testarossas...

La Sportiva's P3 ( sportiva.com/products/footw…) is designed to address exactly the pnenomenon you describe: "The Miura VS is built with the P3® platform for a continued down turn shape which makes it excellent for steep overhangs."

I don't bother with the VSs unless I feel they're needed for a paricular route (Katanas are just fine for most of my "needs" plus I rotate other shoes as well), but they've been re-soled twice and have maintained their "downturnedness" (let's add that to the OED) so the concept seems to work.

Why put the hurt on unless the benefit is worth it--the VSs can stick to some really minimal protuberences (and fit into fairly small indentations) and smear resaonably well considering that's not their focus, but having to remove your shoes between climbs (even with velcro) isn't my idea of a good time, so as others have said, I'd stick to a less-agressive shoe unless you're projecting something where you need that extra bit of help!

Alright, I think I've got my answer.

I guess I was looking for a "Stick a baseball in it, and wrap it with a rubberband" type of answer. (Obviously referring to a baseball glove)

So I definitely appreciate all the lightning fast feedback. To refine my climbing situation: I don't have a lot of money, and climbing for me best fits indoors right now. I'm in the process of setting up a lead class so I can start looking for some outdoor bolted routes, but I feel like I need more practice on indoor routes first still. I'm climbing at a 5.10+ (Not sure how that translates as I think our gym has made up the plus to indicate that it's a 5.10a or b, but I'm not sure)

I have an old pair of ClimbX Redpoints that are definitely too large. I bought them online like a first time buyer would. So I wanted to step up my game after a couple months and bought the Vapor V's. They fit better than anything else in the store for the money. I passed up the Shamans, Miuras, and many others even after trying them all on. They also definitely fit right, or maybe too tight. I have long toes and I was told that you don't want to see your toe knuckles at the top of the shoe, but going a half size larger gave me a less airtight fit.

So I'm having a hard time using the old shoes because I feel like I'm climbing in clown shoes after wearing the Vapors. I don't even climb a lot of overhangs because the gym's overhang walls are around 5.11-5.13's and I'm still working on a more vertical 5.11 to break that threshold.

I think my solution is to just get over the fact that they're flattening out and just wear the shoes out doing what I love. I'll buy another pair when I start working on a big project that requires it. I'm thinking I should have bought a more all around shoe that just fit better, rather than going for an overhang shoe like this one. Might have saved me some very uncomfortable hours in the gym.

Thanks everyone!

Mike Kocha wrote:Alright, I think I've got my answer. I guess I was looking for a "Stick a baseball in it, and wrap it with a rubberband" type of answer. (Obviously referring to a baseball glove) So I definitely appreciate all the lightning fast feedback. To refine my climbing situation: I don't have a lot of money, and climbing for me best fits indoors right now. I'm in the process of setting up a lead class so I can start looking for some outdoor bolted routes, but I feel like I need more practice on indoor routes first still. I'm climbing at a 5.10+ (Not sure how that translates as I think our gym has made up the plus to indicate that it's a 5.10a or b, but I'm not sure) I have an old pair of ClimbX Redpoints that are definitely too large. I bought them online like a first time buyer would. So I wanted to step up my game after a couple months and bought the Vapor V's. They fit better than anything else in the store for the money. I passed up the Shamans, Miuras, and many others even after trying them all on. They also definitely fit right, or maybe too tight. I have long toes and I was told that you don't want to see your toe knuckles at the top of the shoe, but going a half size larger gave me a less airtight fit. So I'm having a hard time using the old shoes because I feel like I'm climbing in clown shoes after wearing the Vapors. I don't even climb a lot of overhangs because the gym's overhang walls are around 5.11-5.13's and I'm still working on a more vertical 5.11 to break that threshold. I think my solution is to just get over the fact that they're flattening out and just wear the shoes out doing what I love. I'll buy another pair when I start working on a big project that requires it. I'm thinking I should have bought a more all around shoe that just fit better, rather than going for an overhang shoe like this one. Might have saved me some very uncomfortable hours in the gym. Thanks everyone!

With the exception of crack climbing the vapor v is a pretty all around shoe (for reference, try on something REALLY downturned/sensitive like the 5.10 teams for an idea of what I would consider an "extreme" shoe), so I would say you made a decent choice if most of what you're doing is in the gym.

As for preventing the downturn from departing, take a pair of flip flops and limit the time you spend walking around in the shoe. Take them out of your bag and allow them to dry after you use em so they dont sit in a weird crunched up shape while they dry, close the straps to help keep them in their natural shape when you arent wearing them. doing that should help them retain some more shape. Also you mentioned fit and not being able to see your toes in the shoe, that doesnt really apply to aggressive sport shoes, you want your toes curled down and really packed into the toe box, in fact i think if I cant see my toe knuckles the shoe is far too loose. When you pull the shoe on you should feel your heel get pulled into the heel cup and your foot should be pulled into the downturned position, if this isnt happening it may be the source of your departing shoe shape.

frankstoneline wrote: With the exception of crack climbing the vapor v is a pretty all around shoe (for reference, try on something REALLY downturned/sensitive like the 5.10 teams for an idea of what I would consider an "extreme" shoe), so I would say you made a decent choice if most of what you're doing is in the gym. As for preventing the downturn from departing, take a pair of flip flops and limit the time you spend walking around in the shoe. Take them out of your bag and allow them to dry after you use em so they dont sit in a weird crunched up shape while they dry, close the straps to help keep them in their natural shape when you arent wearing them. doing that should help them retain some more shape. Also you mentioned fit and not being able to see your toes in the shoe, that doesnt really apply to aggressive sport shoes, you want your toes curled down and really packed into the toe box, in fact i think if I cant see my toe knuckles the shoe is far too loose. When you pull the shoe on you should feel your heel get pulled into the heel cup and your foot should be pulled into the downturned position, if this isnt happening it may be the source of your departing shoe shape.

Yeah. According to what you're saying, my shoes fit perfect. Which is what I thought. I couldn't get them off if they didn't have the loops on the backs.

Thanks for the info. Apparently I'm already doing everything I can to keep their shape. I hang them on my bag to keep them aired out and let them dry after climbs, always doing the straps up if for nothing else, to prevent them from snagging other things while I'm walking about with my bag.

A lot of great information. I appreciate all the answers.

reboot wrote:Some shoes just don't stay aggressive well, the Scarpa Vapor V & Sportiva Miura lace are 2 examples.

I've never really thought that the Miura Lace's were that aggressive anyway. When I used to have my pair I used them as a do-everything shoe.

David Sahalie wrote: I rotate through several pairs.

Freaking money bags over here.

Lol. Hardly. I only use solutions on overhanging projects and have had them for 5 years with one c4 resole. Mad rocks for whatever else is on sale for plastic or warm ups at the crag.