Achilles Heel Bursitis / Haglunds Deformity and Climbing Shoes

Hi everybody! I'm new to climbing (about a month) and got the 5.10 rogues to start out. They seemed comfortable enough at first, the toe box has gotten better but the heel started to kill my haglunds last week. Super sucks since I'm rather addicted at this point.
I found this post

llanberisresoles.com/pages/…
They describe how to do it here.
Since I'm new to climbing I'm gonna return my rogues and see if I can find a less aggressive heel first. Thanks for all the recommendations and good luck to all us haglunding out there!

Update on my story on coping with the problem on my heel:

I found that the LaSportiva Boulder-X approach shoes I have climb really well and don't hurt my heel at all. They edge really well, but you pretty much can't feel anything your foot is on. I wore them for 2 months in the gym before finding a climbing shoe that worked for my heel right out of the box.

Evolv Royale's. They're marketed as a beginner shoe, (Flat last, symmetric toebox) but I've been digging them - no heel pain with them and I still climb well with them - they're not holding me back right now. They've got a low tension heel with unlined leather in the back - so you could stretch out a spot for your heel bump if you need.

I was looking for a shoe I can use for training / mileage, and they fit the bill for me. They're also cheap, i got them at my local shop for $69.

shain picard wrote:I'm not dealing with this problem, but on the topic of heel cups being "too loose" scarpa is somewhat known for having a baggier or too large of a heel cup on most their models other than the boostic which has resolved that issue. The guy that designed the sportiva Miuras went to scarpa and designed the boostic and they fit very similar. Other than the boostic, which may not be helpful with this issue, the boostER, not boostIC, has a baggy heel and is a very high end performance shoe. You could also try the scarpa vapor, as they also have a "too" baggy heel cup. But again they fit similar to sportivas.

Do yoy known when that Guy from lasporrtiva left for scarpa ??
Where did you heard that ??

I am asking that because i just bought a new miura, 5 years after my last purchase, and i notice the new miura sizing is different. They are 1 full size larger

Thanks

DanJ wrote:Rocknice2, congrats on figuring out a solution and thank you for sharing it with us, especially the pic of your TC Pros. I saw your prior post from May 2013, and it's great you've found an approach that allowed you to climb a 23-pitch route without abnormal pain. I think all of us struggling with haglund's deformity (retrocalcaneal bursitis, pump bump, Achilles tendonitis) hope the same for ourselves. I've had the haglund's bumps for a few years, but they only became a problem this past summer towards the end of a six-month climbing trip. I was climbing multi-pitch trad daily, and my TC Pros did a number on my heels, aggravating the prior bumps in a major way, particularly the right foot. (Both of my bumps are on the outsides of my heels, as it appears yours is.) I've experimented with pretty much everything from these threads since: moleskin around the bump (alternatively, on the bump), a T-shaped cut through the boomerang rand, pushing out a bubble from the inside w/ a vice-grip & heat, trying less-aggressive shoes with straight heel cups, and finally, climbing barefoot and getting ample rest and taking topical and oral NSAIDs. Unfortunately I have not found a solution that works for me yet. The closest I've come is by applying a strip of moleskin around the base of my heal, covering the bump and surrounding area. I am going to make the modifications that you did and see how that goes. I'll try it on my old TC Pros and then on a new pair. For awhile I thought I needed a different shoe, but now I'm leaning towards just these modifications, as every pair of shoes seems to hurt a bit regardless, without the modifications. (Now my climbing partner would heckle me for my loyalty to TC Pros, which has turned love-hate b/c Sportiva's boomerang rand aggravated the condition.) I am about to embark on another road trip, this time through southern China, so hopefully I get this worked out haha. Thanks for the posts everyone. Keep sharing your successes and failures so we can crack this one.

Dan did you ever do the mod and did it work for you?

Thanks for the link rocknice2, glad to hear that grinding the rand worked without a drastic drop in performance. I think that will probably be better than going to an entry level shoe, I'd really like to keep the high top ankle protection for long alpine days.

On the note of approach shoes in this thread, my haglunds bump is quite high and I found that the old generation of scarpa crux was very comfortable on my heel. They don't edge worth a damn though and the leather doesn't dry fast. So this season I tried Sportiva Xplorers, they climb great and hike quite well, but they have a very rigid heel cup. The pain on my heel is unbearable, I highly recommend against these if you have haglund's deformity and I highly recommend them to anyone if you have normal heels.

Rocknice2 / update,

I did the mod to my old TC Pros, and it worked well. Rather than grinding a hole, I just hung out with a shoe cobbler (in Bangkok), and she helped me cut the rand w/ an exacto knife to mimic your mod. We also glued a moleskin pad in the center of the heel (to the left of the bump) to cover an area of the shoe that was agitating my foot. The mod reduced the aggressiveness of my right shoe a bit, but it was far more comfortable and bearable. Thanks for following up!

Earlier I posted that I was about to embark on an expedition through western China. That trip is done now, and I am happy to report that I climbed and approached hundreds of km successfully with my haglunds deformity. The solution was a combination of things. (1) I had several months of rest beforehand. Between Nov & May, I only climbed a dozen times or so, so essentially six months off. I imagine this was the most important remedy. (2) All of my shoes are fairly comfortable. First, I love running; my trail running shoes are moderate minimalists that barely chafe my heel. Second, my approach shoes are Boulder X's, which don't agitate too much. (They used to, then it stopped.) Third, I went through another pair of TC Pros, and for whatever reason, the new pair of the same size (EU 43) was much left painful on my bump. (3) Whenever I felt pain or inflammation, I backed off to the extent possible. This usually meant taking my heels out at belays, NEVER walking in your climbing shoes, and wearing sandals as much as possible. (4) Finally, if I felt it swelling up, I would take NSAIDs both oral and topical (locally).

I was lucky that the problem went away with time and awareness. I hope this can be the case for you too.

Oh yea, and check out our expedition on Facebook! Wild West China Expedition 2015. Tons of videos and photos w/ more to come. Like the page please ;)

I have been battling the pump bump, haglunds, bursitis whatever you wanna call it for 4 months now. My heel still gets angry as fuck sometimes but here are some things that keep it manageable:
- wear professional looking clogs at work, so no rub on heel
- yoga/stretching regularly, scratch that RELIGIOUSLY
- need heart rate up to train? use the bike more
- modify (cut a half dollar size hole) in frequently used shoes such as runners and climbers. I modified my TC pros also. cut hole in rubber, peeled it off and cut vertical slits in the leather underneath to reduce pressure on bump.
- ice right after activity
- ibuprofen
- use roller to loosen up the calf

All of the itis's you guys are talking about. Its from to small of a shoe. Get something comfortable. Your turned down project shoe isn't going to help you "send your prog". Technique will. Quit taking the lame over the counter meds, all its doing is hurting your liver. Caffeine has just about the same affect. What do I know I only shattered my heels and dusted my sub-talar joints.

The issues that people are describing are most generally not at all caused by wearing climbing shoes too tight. Personally, my Hagland's bumps far pre-date me ever putting a climbing shoe on and I imagine that is the case for many of the other posters here too. For most of us, I'd offer that running uphill probably has a greater impact on inflaming the bursa than wearing a really tight shoe. The issue with the tight shoes is that any pressure on the bump (once already inflamed) is rather painful. The inflammation is typically caused by the tendon rubbing on a bone spur. I assume that you wouldn't recommend someone with bursitis in their shoulder to wear looser clothing, so why insist that we should wear loose shoes.

I have had issues with both heels in the past (Haglunds and bursitis). The worst of it was after a season of ice climbing (about 3-4 times a week). I realized that I was wearing my automatic crampons (G-20s) too tight with boots (sportiva trango extremes) that didnt have much back of the boot / achilles stiffness. when the season ended and I transitioned to rock shoes the pain went away, and has stayed away, but the bump itself is now larger but entirely pain free. I wear a mix of testerossas and anasazi velcros and TC pros. All work great but the velcros are most painful for long periods. Not sure how my experience is helpful to you other that saying that even after experiencing pretty bad pain you might end up with long periods of no pain.

hope your feet feel better.

I have a bone spire in my heel and a small hag kinds deformity so I have been dong my research. In addition to finding best fit and augmenting the shoe. You must stretch! Oddly one area that has direct impact on this area are the hip flexors . Evidently a tight hip causes premature lifting of the heel when walking , running , hiking. So stretch the hamstrings the gluteus. The calfs and the hip flexors

Thanks for all of your comments on this problem--they helped me come up with my own, slightly different solution which saved my climbing trip in Sicily. I wrote about the experience here: The Italian Shoe Massacre

I hope this helps!

I'm glad I came back to this thread. I've got the bump pretty bad, and my brother does too. My brother doesn't climb, but he plays hockey. When he described how hockey skates are fit I immediately thought of "performance fit". It's not to say that tight shoes are the sole (get it?) cause of this for any of us, it's just one factor that contributed.

Once I started seeing a PT a couple years back he explained that I've been doing very intensive Achille's straining activities that involve dropping my heels (ice climbing, slab climbing, steep approaches, snowboarding, etc.) without doing any sort of stretching or rolling, and it has taken it's toll. Luckily I was able to learn the right stretches to at least prevent or mitigate it from developing further, but I still get pain from it if I'm not religious about stretching. I also just don't climb as much as I used to, and I think it's a bit of a mental block because of how much pain it would cause my feet (and being worried that I'd actually tear my damn Achille's off and not be able to do anything else I like doing).

I have to tape up my heels to do anything fun, and I'm really excited to try these shoe modifications. I'm also going to get some of these Achille's pad/sock things for my non-climbing activities, and if you read the reviews for the pads online most of them are written by hockey players. Hah!

It's just nice to know I'm not alone out here, and I'm sure we all know how frustrating it can be to have such a hard time doing the things we love.

Tony T. wrote: I'm glad I came back to this thread. I've got the bump pretty bad, and my brother does too. My brother doesn't climb, but he plays hockey. When he described how hockey skates are fit I immediately thought of "performance fit". It's not to say that tight shoes are the sole (get it?) cause of this for any of us, it's just one factor that contributed. Once I started seeing a PT a couple years back he explained that I've been doing very intensive Achille's straining activities that involve dropping my heels (ice climbing, slab climbing, steep approaches, snowboarding, etc.) without doing any sort of stretching or rolling, and it has taken it's toll. Luckily I was able to learn the right stretches to at least prevent or mitigate it from developing further, but I still get pain from it if I'm not religious about stretching. I also just don't climb as much as I used to, and I think it's a bit of a mental block because of how much pain it would cause my feet (and being worried that I'd actually tear my damn Achille's off and not be able to do anything else I like doing). I have to tape up my heels to do anything fun, and I'm really excited to try these shoe modifications. I'm also going to get some of these Achille's pad/sock things for my non-climbing activities, and if you read the reviews for the pads online most of them are written by hockey players. Hah! It's just nice to know I'm not alone out here, and I'm sure we all know how frustrating it can be to have such a hard time doing the things we love.

Tony, most of my family has Haglund's as well, I don't know much about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's hereditary. The other theory is we've all done too much steep hiking, mountaineering, and climbing as youth without proper stretching, and this, compounded over the years, caused the damage.

I'm curious though, what stretches, exactly, did your PT recommend? Question is open to anyone with a certain set of stretches they believe helps.

Just to add some more to the knowedge on this thread, I recently got a pair of evolve cruzer psyche approach shoes, and while it's not as sturdy as the guide tennies, the heel fit is great for my haglunds and doesn't bother me at all. Size to street shoe for a sneaker fit and a half size down if you want a technical fit with some light climbing. Also digging the evolv royale as a training and gym shoe. Isn't a performer, but I can wear them all day and just dig out the good shoes when needed.

my scarpa cruxes have stretched now to be a little looser than id like them for technical approaches, but they have turned into my most comfortable shoes at this points, climbing, trainer, or otherwise.

gonna play with a dremmel this weekend, and see if that will help my new katanas be comfortable on my heel.

Alex Temus wrote:

Tony, most of my family has Haglund's as well, I don't know much about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's hereditary. The other theory is we've all done too much steep hiking, mountaineering, and climbing as youth without proper stretching, and this, compounded over the years, caused the damage.

I'm curious though, what stretches, exactly, did your PT recommend? Question is open to anyone with a certain set of stretches they believe helps.

A lot of the PT was based around the concept that my calf tightness is causing my Achille's tendon to pull away from the bone or something horrific sounding like that.  This was compounded by my plantar fasciia being super tight as well, so throw in some plantar fasciitis related stretches to the mix, and I had an hours worth of PT to do every damn day.  

I'd have to dig out the write-up sheet I had from my PT, but it was something along the lines of:

-Calf stretches either off a stair or against a wall. 

-Eccentric raised calf stretches off a stair

-Rolling my calves with a roller stick

-Using a stretch strap (home made with webbing of course) and doing some leg and hip stretches with that

Honestly, it helped a bit, but I think the only thing would yield noticeable shrinkage of the deformity would be surgery, and all of the complications/lack of guarantees that go along with that.  For now, I use a few layers of EuroTape over it and that seems to keep it from getting too aggravated.  

Interesting you mentioned thinking it might be hereditary since my brother also has it.  He's been more of a traditional athlete his whole life from football, basketball, and then hockey as an adult.  He said his hockey skates realllly made it worse though, and I've read that elsewhere too.

I'm guessing this will just be something I/we live with our whole lives and manage.  It's nice to have a little support group though!

Just thought I'd let you all know that I tried grinding the rubber off of the bump area on the back of my shoes and it works like a charm! my climbing shoes are so comfortable now! (and not loose)

BIG thanks to rocknice2. Lifesaver

Thought I would throw in what I have found to work for me since this problem is so annoying and hard to work with. 

Mythos. The heel is very low and doesn't even touch the spot where my haglunds deformity swells up. Additionally, you can make the heel looser by making with the laces. Although, I guess if you are really crushing you may want some more aggressive shoes, but I would recommend at least spending a few months letting it heal in mythos.

I know this is an old thread, but it's what I found when I was initially looking for a solution, so I wanted to contribute my data.

I started in Sportiva Katana laces, which I loved, but which quickly seemed to be aggravating my Haglund's bump. I tried taking them to a shoe repair place that created a bump-out in the rubber where my heel protruded, but the back of the shoe still cut into my Achilles. Desperate to hold onto the shoes, I used scissors to cut a slice in the rubber down the back toward my bump, which definitely helped a little--but didn't cure it.

After a while, I decided to try Scarpa Force V, because of the padded heel, but found that the padding still dug into my Achilles right above the bump. Plus, they weren't sensitive enough for anything but warm-ups, so I eventually gave up on those.

Someone recommended Tenaya Iatis, which were similar in performance and more comfortable than the Katanas, but not perfect--still digging into the heel.

I came upon a review that mentioned Tenaya Ras have a shallow heel cup, so I tried those. And...BINGO! I'm in LOVE. The fit is fantastic, and they're as precise as I need. They seem to be stiff enough to hold most edges, and flexible enough to smear. They're generally a great all-around shoe with a nice, flat heel for those of us whose heel bumps will hold any shoe firmly in place! My only complaint is that because I have an extraordinarily high arch, downturned shoes generally fit the shape of my foot more solidly, and I have a little air gap under my arch in these. But for the sake of my heel, I'm committed.

Hope this helps others!