Is climbing really a Leave No Trace sport?
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I believe this is an interesting question because the name LNT is very deceiving. Although the words "leave no trace" form a clearly authoritative and black and white command, it is not physically possible to abide by them in their most literal sense if you want to climb. If you want to climb, you will leave some trace of your presence, end of story. |
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Srsly guys!!! Not looking to start a flame war!! |
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trad route with a walk-off |
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You actually have to ask if placing a bolt is a violation of LNT? Hahahahahaha. |
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dannl wrote:trad route with a walk-off= eroded cliff top and trail back down to the base if more than a few people do it. |
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Screw it! Let's quit climbing, we are killing the enviroment. |
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The answer is obvious, unless you dig a dying hole and get to "it" you are still going to leave a trace. |
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While the phrase "leave no trace" is very black and white and implies some sort of no impact practice, the seven principles outlined by the LNT organization are fairly easy to follow and put in practice as a climber. It fully recognizes that no matter what humans do there are going to be some impacts associated with our presence. |
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No outdoor activity is truly LNT. |
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Kevin Landolt wrote:You actually have to ask if placing a bolt is a violation of LNT? Hahahahahaha.Well, when an organization like the RRGCC says "practice leave no trace ethics" in a place like the RRG, yea, I do. One of the top coalitions in the nation is telling me to LNT in a place with 10,000 bolts, so that kind of implies that bolting somehow does not apply to LNT. That kinds of hints at my original question, which is yet to be answered. How can organizations spray about LNT ethics while pounding semi-truck loads of chalk on the rock and placing thousands of bolts every month? |
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20 kN wrote: How can organizations spray about LNT ethics while pounding semi-truck loads of chalk on the rock and placing thousands of bolts every month?I don't have an answer nor have I been to RRG, but I feel the LNT spraying is more oriented toward mitigating impacts that could harm the natural environment. Such as developing social trails and trampling native vegetation instead of staying on trail or packing out waste to minimize impacts on water quality. When it comes to placing bolts and climbing on rock with chalk, yes you are changing the appearance of the rock face, but it seems that the impact of chalk in the ecological realm is minimal. I did read in the NRG Climbing Management plan that they did discover that possible negative impacts on micro flora and fauna, such as lichen, by chalk use have been found but I couldn't find any more information on the subject. It seems as though they felt it was minimal since they continue to allow chalk use. |
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No, my tears have streaked the rock red |
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On a sub-atomic level, you cannot have an effect on your environment if you tried. And keep in mind that there are possibly infinite multi-verse versions of you occupying the same 'space' who might be pissing plutonium or beheading neighbors for stepping on a flower. |
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Didn't we just (finally) kill a thread about chalk.... It seems like there is one of these posts every week. I am sorry but NO. Climbing is not LNT. |
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It could be, but it's not. |
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20 kN wrote: Well, when an organization like the RRGCC says "practice leave no trace ethics" in a place like the RRG, yea, I do. One of the top coalitions in the nation is telling me to LNT in a place with 10,000 bolts, so that kind of implies that bolting somehow does not apply to LNT. That kinds of hints at my original question, which is yet to be answered. How can organizations spray about LNT ethics while pounding semi-truck loads of chalk on the rock and placing thousands of bolts every month?Asking what was meant at the redriverclimbing.com forums would probably get you the following answer: The LNT ethics that should be followed at the Red were primarily suggested as a means of dealing with the sickening amounts of human feces frequently found on, near, and under routes. Several bag stations have been put in place to make the Red a less disgusting place to climb. To a lesser extent, clean up your trash, brush your ticks, and don't leave draws hanging on forest service land (where they are forbidden.) |
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leave no trace "of abuse". |
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I've been climbing for nearly 10 years. I'm a Leave No Trace Master Educator and I'm the Education Programs Coordinator for the Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics. I think some of you are looking at Leave No Trace through a slightly skewed lens. Leave No Trace is not black and white. It's better to think of Leave No Trace as a spectrum and it's more about finding where you, personally, lie within that range of practices. I'll use human waste as an example: On one end of the spectrum you have somebody who's only comfortable going to the bathroom in their own home, in the middle is somebody who's comfortable using a pit toilet, then you have folks who are cool pooping in a cathole and burying their toilet paper, then on the far end is the person that chooses to pack out all their solid, human waste. When thought of this way, it's easy to see how Leave No Trace isn't black and white at all and that it applies to every outdoor recreation activity - including rock climbing.
Travel and Camp on Durable Surfaces
Dispose of Waste Properly
Leave What You Find
Minimize Campfire Impacts
Respect Wildlife
Be Considerate of Other Visitors
© Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics For more information on Leave No Trace, visit LNT.org or call 1.800.332.4100 |
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Leave no trace is a misnomer - by our mere existence we leave 'traces'. Impossible to avoid, ridiculous to pretend we can LNT. |