Trundling

In terms of safety, how far away from the base of a climb should other climbers be before I start trundling some larger blocks?

EDIT: Despite some sarcastic remarks, trundling is very dangerous.

Don't hate me.

No rocks or climbers were harmed in the making of this thread.

over 9000!

It depends.....What color is the webbing? Will you be using a figure 8 or an overhand for the master point?

J Hazard wrote:In terms of safety, how far away from the base of a climb should other climbers be before I start trundling some larger blocks?

Jonathan,

That will depend upon many variables - how steep the slope is, how high up you are trundling from, the topography of the impact zone, the size of the rocks, etc.

So the firm and correct answer is...it depends.

ZachR wrote:It depends.....What color is the webbing? Will you be using a figure 8 or an overhand for the master point?

Are you saying I should tie onto each block and lower it?

You usually don't have to worry about other climbers being below because they will be able to get out of the way on their own. Have fun!!!

RyanJames wrote: You usually don't have to worry about other climbers being below because they will be able to get out of the way on their own. Have fun!!!

Yeah I figured that just yelling rock would be enough, but some other climbers got mad because they were belaying and could not get out of the way. I did let them borrow my first aid kit.

before you trundle on purpose ... read this ...

outsideonline.com/outdoor-a…

if you do so without clearing the route and the base of people yr an effing idiot .... rocks can fall a long way out from the base, which is why you see all that loose rock far from the base of a climb

J, you're going to have to excuse old Bearbreeder. He gets a little sensitive about folks dumping rocks/debris onto climbing parties - he's really sensitive like that.

So could you elaborate on your trundling experience a little? What happened, where and how many were hurt?

Thanks for sharing.
d

It was at a obscure little crag called Crag o' Dynamite. A rather large chunk of rock was sitting just waiting to be pulled off, so I pulled it. The other people were to the left of the route, figured it would be safe. Yeah they got kind of mad. Everyone was ok though, no worries.

I love that right above this thread right now is the "Why everyone should wear a helmet thread"

Be aware that it is not just the direct impact of the original rock you have to worry about. The force generated (can be huge) can shoot shards sideways for a great distance that can easily kill somebody. Get people further away than you would think and behind protecting rock. I dropped a car sized rock and a friend didn't go as far away as he was supposed to and peaked around the corner to watch after giving the all clear, and the impact sent a coffin sized block flying by him, shearing a tree off on the way. Rather scary!

Speaking as someone who has been unintentionally trundled uponst (my head/helmet combo and my left thigh), I'm ok with trundling rocks on chossy routes as long as it is safe. Unfortunately for me, the belayer, the Jansport backpack sized horn-juggy fell uponst me directly below the climber. Ideally trundlage should occur on rappel when you are pretty sure no climbers are directly below you. Chossy routes are meant to be trundled and cleaned for safety. Better to trundle intentionally than to climb something that is going to explode at any minute harming the belayer unconscious and thereby harming the climber. Thankfully I was only knocked out briefly but my instincts had me lock off the climber.

mountainproject.com/v/littl…

Watch the videos in this thread and learn. There is a reason they did this when the canyon was closed and there were no cars or climbers anywhere. The base of this cliff is about 100 feet above the road.

J Hazard wrote: Yeah I figured that just yelling rock would be enough, but some other climbers got mad because they were belaying and could not get out of the way. I did let them borrow my first aid kit.

If this is a weak attempt at a troll, it's not funny. I had a friend get injured from some jackass throwing rocks off a cliff in Castlewood Canyon. I understand you are trying to help, but by not warning everyone in the area of what you are doing, you are putting them at incredible risk. Please don't trundle unless you are 100% certain there is no one around or below the base of the cliff.

Yeah I figured that just yelling rock would be enough, but some other climbers got mad because they were belaying and could not get out of the way. I did let them borrow my first aid kit.

t was at a obscure little crag called Crag o' Dynamite. A rather large chunk of rock was sitting just waiting to be pulled off, so I pulled it. The other people were to the left of the route, figured it would be safe. Yeah they got kind of mad. Everyone was ok though, no worries.

so let me get this straight .... everyone was OK, but you let them borrow yr first aid kit ...

ive seen people smacked by rocks and it isnt funny

troll

"The worst case on record was a 1994 trundling incident that set off a 50-ton rockslide down the north face of 12,799-foot Granite Peak, Montana's tallest mountain. The three young climbers who did it apparently thought there wouldn't be a problem, because the north face was a difficult, less-used approach to the summit. Unfortunately, climber Tony Rich, 33, happened to be in the path of their barrage and was killed. The three were charged with negligent endangerment and received a combination of fines, community service, and jail time."

From the link that bearbreeder supplied.

Trundling can be safe but I've seen small rocks create tremendously huge problems as they pick up speed and friends along the way. Planned trundling should be communicated to everyone in the area...and if you have to talk to warn more than 3 people you should probably wait for a different time to trundle.

bearbreeder wrote:ive seen people smacked by rocks and it isnt funny troll

I don't think I was climbing with Hazmat at that time, but on a serious note, I've been to Crag o' Dynamite with him. Rock fall is a very common characteristic. The crag is like two feet from the road and the road is littered with sandstone rock bombs. Other climbers there need to be aware of this--if they aren't they are ignorant and a danger to themselves. It's not funny, but it certainly isn't a troll.

David Lee wrote: I don't think I was climbing with Hazmat at that time, but on a serious note, I've been to Crag o' Dynamite with him. Rock fall is a very common characteristic. The crag is like two feet from the road and the road is littered with sandstone rock bombs. Other climbers there need to be aware of this--if they aren't they are ignorant and a danger to themselves. It's not funny, but it certainly isn't a troll.

they may need to be aware of it ... but just like in the rockies where there is tons of loose rock, you dont start chucking stuff down before making damn sure it wont hit anyone at all ... simply inform the people at the base before hand or wait till they are off belay ... this aint some alpine multi were taking about ... its a roadside crag with good communication i assume

Jeremy Monahan wrote:http://www.mountainproject.com/v/little-eiger-clear-creek-canyon/107635154#a_107636030 Watch the videos in this thread and learn. There is a reason they did this when the canyon was closed and there were no cars or climbers anywhere. The base of this cliff is about 100 feet above the road. If this is a weak attempt at a troll, it's not funny. I had a friend get injured from some jackass throwing rocks off a cliff in Castlewood Canyon. I understand you are trying to help, but by not warning everyone in the area of what you are doing, you are putting them at incredible risk. Please don't trundle unless you are 100% certain there is no one around or below the base of the cliff.

I also can't tell if J Hazard is serious, especially about the first aid kit comment. If I were the climbers below you, I'd be livid if you dropped rock anywhere remotely in my vicinity without me giving the go-ahead.

Falling rock presents a life-threatening risk, and as Mark has noted, it's difficult to predict exactly how the rock will fall/bounce/splinter. Even a "small" rock could cause death, or a traumatic brain injury. I'm the one taking most of the risk (you, as the trundler, are above the falling rock), but you're the one making the decision, unilaterally, for both of us. Basically you're assuming I trust you to decide whether I'm "far enough away" to drop rock.

If your definition of "far enough away" resulted in the party below you needing a first aid kit, we clearly have vastly different opinions of what that phrase means.

Again, I apologize if this was meant as a joke, but if you were serious, I suggest you think about the situation from the other party's point of view, and try to understand why they were so angry.

David Lee wrote: I don't think I was climbing with Hazmat at that time, but on a serious note, I've been to Crag o' Dynamite with him. Rock fall is a very common characteristic. The crag is like two feet from the road and the road is littered with sandstone rock bombs. Other climbers there need to be aware of this--if they aren't they are ignorant and a danger to themselves. It's not funny, but it certainly isn't a troll.

Better to be a danger to yourself, than a danger to other people. Please stop your "public service" of trundling. If there are people below you, you don't trundle. I thought this was a troll post at first but now I'm convinced it is just a helpful moron. We don't need more of those out climbing.

David Appelhans wrote: Better to be a danger to yourself, than a danger to other people. Please stop your "public service" of trundling. If there are people below you, you don't trundle. I thought this was a troll post at first but now I'm convinced it is just a helpful moron. We don't need more of those out climbing.

Ok I must say that I did not really trundle a rock on a party. I am hazardous but not that bad... The joke is from a past experience of a friend of mine in which somebody threw a rock off the top of a cliff onto a party below.