Canister or liquid fuel stoves?

I'm looking to get a real camp stove and I'm wondering which would be better, canister or liquid fuel? I do mostly 3 season camping and climbing in California, where the coldest temp I've had is in the 20s.

Any thoughts? I'm looking ay an MSR liquid fuel and a JetBoil for canister. I like the idea of the canister, but I don't want to get stuck unable to cook. The liquid fuel is the most versatile, but is more costly and looks to be more cumbersome to use.

I think it depends on what you are planning on cooking with your stove. Are you just boiling water or are you planning on cooking meals? If you are going to cook meals a liquid fuel stove will probably work better for you. If you are boiling water the jet boil or MSR Reactor are hard to beat for their fast times.
Dallen

I think it's the opposite, I can only boil water on my whisperlite, but can easily simmer and cook whatever I want on my pocket rocket. However, in cold(colorado winter) conditions the pocket rocket sucks.

If your lowest temp will be in the 20s I don't know that I'd worry about it.

Also, canisters are lots more expensive than white gas and are wasteful since they cannot be refilled.
However the pocket rocket is wicked light compared to my whisperlite.

Even with the expense and the waste, when I want to go light and compact in the summer/fall I will take the pocket rocket.

Scott, your last sentence is right on. I bought the liquid canister for my whisper light. It is easier to fly with empty and you can burn lots of different fuels if white gas is not available. The canister is definitely more convenient, but like it has been said it is wasteful. Not refillable and most places now do not accept them for recycling. The difference in time spent in setup between the two is probably less than a minute or two. The cost of white gas seems minor to me. I went the environmental way with a reusable liquid canister.

I have a whisperlight and have used it for a while. I bought a pocket rocket this past year for speed, weight and convenience (afetr watching a friend boil water in about half of the time). Its smaller, easier to set up and take apart, more stable. If you're looking for something compact and lightweight, go with the pocket rocket. If you might end up camping in colder conditions or travelling overseas/high altitude/etc, go with the whisperlight.

Scott, the cold-weather disadvantages of canister stoves can be negated if you buy a model that allows the canister to be inverted. Several manufacturers are now making stoves where this mode of use is intentional, for example the Jet Boil Helios. Others make stoves that can be used in this way, but are not officially designed for it. My favorite is the MSR Wind Pro. Cheap, light, and very flexible in it's cooking abilities. In moderate temperatures you can keep the canister upright and get good temperature control. When it's bitterly cold you can invert the canister and it becomes the ultimate snow-melting machine. I've done head-to-head comparisons with a wisperlite, and there is no competition when it comes to the speed with which you can melt snow. The Wind Pro with an inverted canister blows it out of the water.

That said, in really cold weather, it's best to cook in your tent anyway. Your body heat, and the heat form the stove will keep even a regular canister model burning strong, and for this use nothing is as convenient as a JetBoil PCS or Sol. I've used the Sol down to ~10F inside a tent, and had no problems.

So in my opinion, the only reason you would ever want a liquid fueled stove is for international travel, or huge long expeditions where the low cost and convenience of a big jug of liquid fuel becomes meaningful.

I am selling my MSR XGK EX stove for $100. It has only been used once. In my opinion, is the best all around stove you can buy. You can burn anything with it, it boils water fast and it doesnt matter how cold or what altitude your in.

Yes the pocket rocket or the Superfly from MSR are great for cooking with lots of adjustablity in how hot they are. The pocket rocket isn't very stable. There are tons of stoves out there like them from other companies as well, Primus, Brunton,ETC. White gas is less expensive ($3.00 gallon) and works well in the cold. The Dragon Fly from MSR is a great do it all stove but is a bit heavier. It has a bell burner like the XGK but will adjust easily. The Simmerlight from MSR is lighter by alot and simmers well. If you are boiling water and want fast times look at the Jet Boil or MSR Reactor. They are both at least twice as fast as the others more conventional stoves on the market. The Reactor being the fastest.
Dallen

Josh Allred wrote:I am selling my MSR XGK EX stove for $100. It has only been used once. In my opinion, is the best all around stove you can buy. You can burn anything with it, it boils water fast and it doesnt matter how cold or what altitude your in.

Unless they modified it, the XGK is an on/off blowtorch as far as I know, seen it produce a foot+ blue flame burning kerosene.
Amazing for melting snow, field maintainable, will burn any liquid that burns...
But when it comes to cooking/simmering, you're looking at holding it a foot off the flame.

Granted, the XGK has two levels: blowtorch and off. But the top of a #303 can makes a fine "simmer attachment." Back in the '80s, MSR would sell you something very similar for $2.95. A pair of needle-nose pliers or a pot-grabber will let you slide the thing on and off without blistering your fingers.

OReid wrote: That said, in really cold weather, it's best to cook in your tent anyway.

Isn't that a really good way to kill yourself? Oooh, it's nice and warm and I'm sleepy. I'll just lay my head down for a minute...

every top level alpinist cooks in their tent. Leave the door cracked and don't be an idiot. Not very dangerous. Plus us mountain types don't have that many brain cells worth saving, so no ones the wiser if we poison ourselves a bit.

The Dragonfly is extremely versatile,good temperature and you can switch between white gas, unleaded, kerosene and diesel. It is a touch heavier, bulkier and much louder and more expensive than the Whisperlite, though. The MSR stoves will take a wide range of fuels, but unleaded gas will clog them faster. Another nice thing about MSR liquid fuel stoves is that you can pick the size fuel bottles you want to use as fuel tanks. Use a tiny 11 oz bottle for an overnighter, or a 30 oz bottle (or a few of them) for a longer trip.

Sunny-D, where do you get white gas for $3/gallon? It's been $10 or more a gallon in Wal-Mart and REI here in Colorado for a few years now. You can get auto fuel for a touch over $3/gallon, but that stuff is sooty and (according to MSR) your stove won't last as long.

I've cooked in my tent, but there are some real dangers. Carbon Monoxide stays in the body for a while, so cooking in your tent repeatedly can lead to a pretty dangerous build up of CO in your blood, even if any one cooking session isn't enough to poison you. Then there's stove flareups, knocking the stove over, gusts of wind flattening the tent more than you expected, and probably a few other ways of setting your gear on fire. Cook in your tent if you have to, but be extremely careful.

You can warm a gas canister with body heat, or you can use a strip of copper taped to the canister with the other end in the stove flame to heat up the canister. I didn't tell you about the second option, I think the dangers are pretty obvious.

I've kept the canister inside my sleeping bag overnight a few times and that works well in the morning if the temp is not below 25F or so. On cool mornings, I have set the stove just outside the vestibule (if you tent comes with one) and make coffee with my lower body still nice and warm inside the sleeping bag. Vestibule can also offer the stove some shelter from the wind. I would never trust myself cooking inside a tent.

one big bonus of liquid fuel is being able to take the right amount of fuel with you. I have a half dozen or so half empty canisters in my garage because I'd rather take one full can on a trip than two or three with uncertain levels.

Mike Washburn wrote:I have a half dozen or so half empty canisters in my garage because I'd rather take one full can on a trip than two or three with uncertain levels.

While there's nothing you can do to refill a half-empty canister, you can take away the uncertainty by spending $25 or so on a digital kitchen scale. A 200ml canister weighs about 200g when full, 90g when empty.

M Sprague wrote: Isn't that a really good way to kill yourself? Oooh, it's nice and warm and I'm sleepy. I'll just lay my head down for a minute...

What Keenan said, plus this: carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning is the real danger, and CO comes from partial combustion of the fuel. The clear blue flame and lack of soot deposits from canister stoves is a good indication of complete combustion, so I think you are probably quite safe using them in a tent. Liquid fueled stoves, particularly in the priming phase could pose a greater danger. The MSR reactor might possibly be another exception as well, since there are CO warning labels all over it's packaging.

OReid wrote: What Keenan said, plus this: carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning is the real danger, and CO comes from partial combustion of the fuel. The clear blue flame and lack of soot deposits from canister stoves is a good indication of complete combustion, so I think you are probably quite safe using them in a tent. Liquid fueled stoves, particularly in the priming phase could pose a greater danger. The MSR reactor might possibly be another exception as well, since there are CO warning labels all over it's packaging.

The MSR Pocket Rocket, Wind Pro and Super Fly stoves all have carbon monoxide warnings in their manuals, as does as least one Jet Boil stove, and all those manuals strongly advise against cooking inside a tent or in an enclosed space. Blue flames would indicate a higher flame temperature than yellow, but I'm not going to bet my life or too many brain cells on any stove producing absolutely no carbon monoxide. Here's some reading on the subject of carbon monoxide and stoves:
zenstoves.net/COHazard.htm .

As I said previously, I have cooked in my tent before, and I will probably continue to do so when circumstances warrant. But as I learn more about the hazards, I'm becoming more inclined to settle for cold food, or cook with the stove just outside the tent and my body inside the tent.

Wow, I was wrong on the price of White gas. I have been buying it from a small shop here and they haven't increased their prices in a while. I also had some sealed bottles that I have been burning off. $12-$15 is about right for the price of a gallon of fuel. Still cheaper then canisters of fuel.
A quick easy way to tell how much fuel is in a half full can of Isopro canister fuel is to float it in water, It will float at about where the fuel level is inside the can, so you can see how much fuel you have left. If you cook in the cold the canister will ice up at the fuel level as well. I too have a stash of partially used fuel cans. What I do is use them when I go car camping so I can take a bunch and not worry about the weight and try to use them up.
Overall I still think the MSR Dragonfly is probably the best stove out there for doing everything, if you only own 1 stove the dragonfly would be a great choice.
Dallen

flynn wrote:Granted, the XGK has two levels: blowtorch and off. But the top of a #303 can makes a fine "simmer attachment."

What is a #303 can?
What is the basic idea on using this to simmer with an XGK style stove?

I have a bunch of each and lots of experience with everything from the Optimus Primus (not a cartoon charicter but a solid brass 1960s expedition kerosine stove) to superlight gas stoves. For ease, light weight and speed, you cannot beat gas. Stand up units can work even in the coldest conditions if standing in an inch of water (or if very very cold an inch of pee - yeuch). Just light it up - quick and simple, no cleaning after using dirty fuel, no pumping, no black soot or smell of burnt fuel. They are also cheeper to buy.

The advantages of a multifuel liquid stove? Better in the cold, cheeper to run, fuel can be found anywhere, stability, you can do multi day trips easily and they look cool after they get been beaten up. They are heavier and more awkward.

One final thing, if you go for a liquid stove get a multifuel one, you can use anything from alcohol, gasoline, kerosine, whitegas, diesel to fermented yeti milk.