Fontainebleau grading now the norm?

So, it seems that in the past year or so that the Fontainbleau grading system has become more prevalent in US made climbing films and articles/discussions. Did I miss the boat or is there a consensus that we're now all going to use Font?

I'm not some ignorant American who's afraid of change or learning new things. I speak four other languages other than English and I'm all for the switch to metric. I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed this or if there is discussion on it already?

Thanks!

When you travel, people speak different languages in different countries. Just the same, Climbers have their own scales in different countries. I think I have climbed on about 6 different scales in the last year and it's pretty fun to be on another scale and find out where you climb on it. I think it misses the point of the feel and style of the area if you are always trying to compare it to YDS or whatever scale you come from. If I can't climb 7b on the french scale and not the Font scale, I really don't care how it relates to another scale somewhere else in the world.

It's kind of like sport climbing without a guidebook and not knowing. Just trying what looks good and what you think you can do. Me against the rock and not a number.

I guess to answer your question. NO!

i figure this is from Sasha's newest send at the red? I figure it sounds cooler to say 9a than 14 deeeeee

I blame 8a.nu.

I think it just has to do with what the FA-ist or whoever did the route is used to. If I went to Font right now and climbed stuff, I wouldn't be saying it felt like a 5b or whatever, I'd be saying it felt like a V-whatever because that's what I know best.

Whenever we find a standard I suppose I'll just jump on board.

I agree with JPVallone, and hope the diversity in grading systems live on. I doubt there will ever be an "esparanto" grading system, and how dull it would be if we all used that universal system.

I've also noticed it around more and have been thinking in terms of Font grades.

I don't mind it at all as I find the French system preferable to the YDS (Yosemite Dumbass System as one local guidebook author called it). Ideally, I would like to see the Ewbank system as used in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa become the dominant system. I much prefer the concise and straight forward simplicity of the Ewbank system.

Just to be straight the Font system is NOT the same as the French system. Both rating systems were developed independently. The French at the Verdon Gorge and the Font, well, errr...

In terms of ratings, the YDS like the V-scale focused on rating a route by its (most difficult) crux. I'm pretty sure the practice of doing this is pretty dead, but the French and Font system never graded the route by the crux, by rather always incorporated multiple cruxes/more sustained routes into their grading equation. I think its a bigger deal in bouldering than in route climbing since the historical boulders that formed the nexus of Sherman's V-scale were typically shorter 4-5 move power problems, whereas more cutting edge boulders tend to be 10-20 moves. I'd be at a loss to think of historical American sport routes that are graded this way.

tcamillieri wrote:Just to be straight the Font system is NOT the same as the French system. Both rating systems were developed independently. The French at the Verdon Gorge and the Font, well, errr...

This bears re-emphasis. All the 8a.nu inspired French Ratings that hip sport climbers in the US are using nowadays are NOT Font ratings.

What will be really funny is when Ondra finally does a 5.15d in ten years or whatever, and all the US mags will have to talk about him doing a 10a. There are some great 10a's at Shelf Road that he should come try!

camhead wrote: What will be really funny is when Ondra finally does a 5.15d in ten years or whatever, and all the US mags will have to talk about him doing a 10a.

Actually it would be 9C if it was a 5.15d and as the French scale moves to 10a then that would actually be 5.16b.

I have climbed extensively on the French scale for about 10 years now and I really don't even think about the YDS scale anymore while there. The only time a discussion comes up is if someone asks about it, otherwise I really don't care, it's part of the traveling and cultural experience to eat the local food, learn the native language and climb on their scale.

On the other hand, the fontainebleau scale is hard to compare to anything and is unique to itself, so unless you have climbed there, It's hard to reference it to your back yard pebble. The place is super fun and I've never had that much fun bouldering, but if you go to France only to climb there you wasted your plane ticket. It's nice if your passing through Paris, but There is so much rock in France to just seek out Font.

Font for me was more fun then Hueco, but I have not been back to hueco since many trips in the early and mid 90's when I was still in College. That was before you had to get a guide and make reservations way in advance to go pebble wrestling, and many of the classic areas were still open. I haven't been back since all that changed. I didn't understand the V scale back then, and I still really don't and don't care, but I also don't have a problem with it and don't try to compare it with anything else, As far as boulders go, I can either climb it or I can't. Actually that goes for most things.

I guess what I am trying to say is that unless you have climbed extensively on another scale, then why try to compare it or even associate a rating with it from another country or another culture. I can understand if you are from another country or scale and establish a new route in the states and want to use your own scale to rate it because you don't know the local scale. But if you are just rating something that way because it's cool and trendy to do so, then whats the point?

You're seeing it in the US now because the young kids think it's the hip edgy thing. They think it makes them sound worldly as if they just spent a season using pof and fondling slopers at Font and then cranking the gnar in Rodellar.

Same reason you used to hear dumbasses who didn't speak a word of french yelling "allez" in the 2000s, which has now transistioned to the new crop of dumbasses who don't speak a word of Spanish yelling "venga" in 2010s.

Another silly trendy thing that even made its way into this thread? Calling a problem a "boulder". Even the rags have started doing this. Which I suppose is accurate if there's a single problem on the boulder and the descent involves jumping off or downclimbing the single problem. Otherwise....'tarded

Yeah, I was curious because I see it more frequently in magazines and now in movies. One thing I'm glad was cleared up is the difference between Font and French grading. I actually didn't know there was a difference, so I'm assuming I'm seeing French grades, not necessarily Font.

Like I said in the original post, I'm all for moving to metric in the US, so I wouldn't be opposed to moving to a standardized more universal grading system. However, that's not what it seems the French system is, so all I am taking away from people using it in North America is them trying to seem edgier, etc. Wtf does it matter? I guess rate your route in whatever grading system you feel most comfortable, in the same way as speak/express yourself in the language you feel most comfortable.

I will say that even after climbing in Brazil for 6 months I didn't quite take to their system, but I made the effort. This thread has made me want to become more fluent in other grading systems as well.

Cheers all!
-t.

Tony T. wrote: I'm all for moving to metric in the US,

+1

We still haven't gotten to the distinction between Font traversing grades vs "regular" ones. Anyone?

But the only French grades that matter are F, PD, D and TD with appropriate +'s and -'s.

vimeo.com/23154050

Three minuets in Daniel speaks a little bit about this topic. I guess the V-scale needs to evolve in some manner to keep pace with the Font scale. Hard boulderers feel that the Font scale is a better tool when describing harder boulder problems. Just imagine if the YDS never evolved into using subsequent letter grades to breakdown each number. Daniel talks about using a decimal system but I think it could also be broken down with letters like the YDS.

V11a
V11b
V11c
V11d
V12a
ect.

But what do I know? I don't boulder that much anymore and I will never boulder hard enough to need a system to differentiate between multiple V-double digit boulder problem I have done. I guess when I hear/see the Font scale being used I assume that its something out of my league. If your that strong I am sure it will magically start to make cense.

the most sensical grading system is the Aussie one, I think. Just numbers. That's it. The higher the number, the harder the climb, mate.

caughtinside wrote: I think this would be terrific at areas which feature both trad and sport climbs.

what would we do with mixed routes? maybe the british system, just to throw a curve into the equation?

i think WillS pretty much hit it on the head.

JJNS wrote:Just imagine if the YDS never evolved into using subsequent letter grades to breakdown each number.

I don't think it'd have made the slightest difference. The YDS is treated as linear. Regardless of how it started, or original intent, people treat the notches the same nowadays. 11c is the next step after 11b, and 8 is the next step after 7. This comparison that the difficulty increase between 11a and 12a should be the same increment as 5 to 6 is pure bullshit; there's no way to measure that. Someone does the hardest climb in the world. People do others at a similar grade until someone feels like they did something that is "the next level". So s/he assigns the next grade to it. It doesn't matter if you're using a/b/c/d, a/a+/b/b+/c/c+ or straight numbers. You pick the next grade. You could use Pink Hearts, Yellow Moons, Orange Stars, Green Clovers, and Blue Diamonds if you wanted to. It's all subjective to an extent anyway, and you can't even really get a consensus until more than a handful of people in the world can climb that level. Look at those charts that compare YDS to French or Ewbank, they more or less increment the same. No grade is better than the others at describing climbs, with the possible exception that the Ewbank is the simplest.

Dicing up V-grades to smaller increments does nothing other than provide these elite boulderers more opportunities to claim they've achieved the next level.

camhead wrote:the most sensical grading system is the Aussie one, I think. Just numbers. That's it. The higher the number, the harder the climb, mate.

Gah. GUd.

[flippy emote]

Ryan Kelly wrote: You could use Pink Hearts, Yellow Moons, Orange Stars, Green Clovers, and Blue Diamonds if you wanted to.

You forgot purple horseshoes!