New Carabiners Metolius FS Minis or more Neutrinos?

I have been using neutrinos and recently got to handle some FS minis. It felt like I was holding nothing but they are very small. I do have small hands but would like some feedback from those that have used the FS minis. Can these hold a clove hitch? I like a beefy 10.5 rope will they work?

I haven't found a better combo of price/weight/size than the Mad Rocks.
I bought pretty much one of every brand of wiregate when I was updating my ancient rack and they all have their merits, but I just can't justify $10/each or comically small biners.

if you want a super light biner that isn't tiny, i like the mammut moses.

To late already I found a great deal and picked up some FS minis. If my rope is a little to big I will have to be burdend with getting a thinner one.

DMM Phantoms. They also come in various colours for colour-coded racking.

vincenzoolllllllo wrote:I have been using neutrinos and recently got to handle some FS minis. It felt like I was holding nothing but they are very small. I do have small hands but would like some feedback from those that have used the FS minis. Can these hold a clove hitch? I like a beefy 10.5 rope will they work?

The bigger problem I find with the Mini's are they're just too small to handle, let alone using them to help build an anchor or clove to. I got a set for Christmas for my cams but find the Neutrino's much much better. I'd like to try the DMM colored versions (can't recall they're name right now... Specters?) since the green nuetrino is a real horrible puke color. I'm thinking of getting rid of the Mini's. Too small to be functional.

DMM Phantoms are great racking biners for me.

If it's a camp nano vs FS mini war, the FS mini loses unless you *want* the smallest possible biner. The nanos I have are bigger and lighter on a scale than the FS minis I have.

The current version of the C.A.M.P. Nano 23 is larger than the Metolius FS Mini while being 2g lighter, but it doesn't come in as many colours for colour-coded racking.

DMM makes 3 different wiregates in 6 or 7 colours for racking.

The smallest is the DMM Phantom (26g), followed by the DMM Spectre 2 (32g), and, if you can still find it anywhere, the largest and heaviest of 3 is the DMM Spectre (35g).

DMM as others have said. The really small biners loose a fair bit of their utility in the rock world. Just too small. The other thing that gives me pause is the open gate ratings on the these tiny biners. I'm a big fan of 9kn and up open gates if possible. The Nano 23 = 7kN and the FS Mini =
I also think DMM shapes their biners better than almost anyone else. Very rope friendly radiuses while still remaining strong and light.

DMM all the way on the colors. I have a mixture of Spectre's and Spectre 2. I like the 2s a bit more as their shape is more refined and seems to be better suited to a cam racking biner. The two major improvements over the Spectre 1s are a more hooded nose area preventing gate rub on the rock AND they made changes the narrow side's shape a bit to better accommodate wider webbing such as that found on C4s.

I don't have any experience with the Phantoms. My hands = Oven Mit size so really small biners and I don't mix well.

FWIW, DMM is set to introduce their Alpha series of biners late spring or early summer.
There's the Alpha Wire Light that looks to be THE racking biner. Light and a notchless wire gate. Sweet. On the UKC boards, Simon (DMM Rep) said they'd look into making a colored set ala the Spectres. No idea when that would be out.

Alpha Light Wire specs out at 28g and 9kn Open Gate which is awesome.



A good writeup of wiregates can be found here. Note that you can find Phantoms for $10 or less with quantity discounts.
Carabiner Evolution

packs of camp nanos regularly come up for around $5 a biner on sale. There are actually 2 versions of the camp nano 23. The older one has an I-beam shape and open straight back. The new one is a T-beam and the gate opens in and to the left for slightly greater clearance. It also has some other indents near the nose. Both have same weight and strength ratings. I like them for racking cams.

I have a couple FS minis. They get relegated to "I'm not going to be using this much" kind of tasks, such as an oh-shit 'biner when I want one, chalk bag, one on the pack to clip it to an anchor, gear anchor pieces, etc. Plus, I HATE notches on racking 'biners. They're just too damn small and fiddly for all-arounder or racking 'biner status.

Justin Brunson wrote:if you want a super light biner that isn't tiny, i like the mammut moses.

+1

Then you could throw on a strip of colored tape across the top so you can use it as a racking biner.......

+1 for Moses biners. They only weigh 1 gram more than the Phantoms but are a few $ cheaper. I use, and like, both of them. My favorite "full size" biner is the WC Helium. At 33 grams it is lighter and bigger than a Neutrino. I love the notchless gate on them.

Mammut Moses. I've been replacing a lot of my old biners with these and the weight saving is amazing!

The Metolius mini's are just too small for me.

Does anyone have any complaints on the Black Diamond OZ carabiner? It seems similar to the Mammut Moses.

moses for sure. minis blow.

mattm wrote:DMM as others have said. The really small biners loose a fair bit of their utility in the rock world. Just too small. The other thing that gives me pause is the open gate ratings on the these tiny biners. I'm a big fan of 9kn and up open gates if possible. The Nano 23 = 7kN and the FS Mini = 8 I also think DMM shapes their biners better than almost anyone else. Very rope friendly radiuses while still remaining strong and light. DMM all the way on the colors. I have a mixture of Spectre's and Spectre 2. I like the 2s a bit more as their shape is more refined and seems to be better suited to a cam racking biner. The two major improvements over the Spectre 1s are a more hooded nose area preventing gate rub on the rock AND they made changes the narrow side's shape a bit to better accommodate wider webbing such as that found on C4s. I don't have any experience with the Phantoms. My hands = Oven Mit size so really small biners and I don't mix well. FWIW, DMM is set to introduce their Alpha series of biners late spring or early summer. There's the Alpha Wire Light that looks to be THE racking biner. Light and a notchless wire gate. Sweet. On the UKC boards, Simon (DMM Rep) said they'd look into making a colored set ala the Spectres. No idea when that would be out. Alpha Light Wire specs out at 28g and 9kn Open Gate which is awesome. A good writeup of wiregates can be found here. Note that you can find Phantoms for $10 or less with quantity discounts. Carabiner Evolution

HOT DIGGITY DAMN!

I've long said that the first company to come out with a notchless wiregate in a range of colours for racking will get sssssooooooooooooooooooooo much of my money! I'll be buying over 50 of them on day 1!

mountainmicah83 wrote:Does anyone have any complaints on the Black Diamond OZ carabiner? It seems similar to the Mammut Moses.

No complaints, but the OZ is 1 gram heavier and has a strength of 20 kn closed and 7 kn open. The Moses is 23 kn closed and 8 kn open. Even 1 kn more in open gate strength is enough to sway me.

+1 for the Nanos

Great value for the weight (I can live without color coding). I just got a bunch more to futher lighten up my trad rack for alpine routes.

BD Oz is actually 31g, FWIW

Nate Reno wrote:BD Oz is actually 31g, FWIW

The BD site lists them at 28g but I don't have any so I can't weigh one.