Climbing gyms and pro-deals

(Yeah, I'm under an alias because I don't want to expose how shallow I really am.)

So I think it goes without saying that nearly any climbing gear company offers great pro-deals to even the lowliest of gym employees. As similar industry members, and influencers in the climbing community, I think this is great.

Recently I asked a couple gyms if they offer the same types of discounts to people who work for ... a climbing shoe company, a gear manufacturer, etc. The answer from both gyms was an emphatic no.

Is this because gyms just don't see any benefit from offering industry pros a discount? Does your gym offer anything to industry members?

That does seem hypocritical, but it's their prerogative.

I think any gear company giving a pro-deal to gym employees is out of their mind. The pro deal thing has gotten completely out of hand. It used to be basically SAR, patrollers, and a few others who were actual working "professionals" that needed the gear partially for the performance of their job. Now it's any schmo at any organization even peripherally related to outdoor rec. And eventually that will lead to restrictions that screw it up for the people who actually deserve and NEED those deals.

A wise & honed climbing mate of mine once pointed out that most pro deals are just a sales gimmick to fool unsuspecting customers into buying a bunch if shit they don't need.

Will S wrote:I think any gear company giving a pro-deal to gym employees is out of their mind. The pro deal thing has gotten completely out of hand. It used to be basically SAR, patrollers, and a few others who were actual working "professionals" that needed the gear partially for the performance of their job. Now it's any schmo at any organization even peripherally related to outdoor rec. And eventually that will lead to restrictions that screw it up for the people who actually deserve and NEED those deals.

I don't know if you've checked up on who gets the best deals, but the people directly involved in selling it (e.g. the people who work in stores) get the best deals. The only reason that actual professionals get any kind of deal is because it can become secondary advertisement. And honestly, most people buying Petzl gear to fulfill an OSHA requirement are not getting any kind of deal. Prodeals are cheap advertising. Always have been.

Brian Scoggins wrote:Prodeals are cheap advertising. Always have been.

Exactly. PD price is generally exactly what the store buys the gear for as part of their regular stock. The manufacturer (BD, Petzl, etc) is just selling even more gear at the exact same profit margin that they're used to getting. And hopefully, the shop employee who buys it will like it, and perhaps push that product to customers in the store.

That having been said, I love me a pro deal and miss not working outdoor retail anymore. But I already have 5 sleeping bags... how many does a guy really need?

prodeals are a godsend especially when you only make seven and change working at the gym

Prodeals are marketing for sure, but they are also a kick back for people who sell, buy and represent it. We are the best marketing tool (and free) because we use the gear and vouch for it to every person we know. Just look at these forum topics. There are also pretty strict rules involved for prodeals because of abuse from friends and family to get less expensive gear. It sucks, but it is a reason that some companies don't offer prodeals anymore to anyone but high end retailers, etc.

Prodeals are almost always better than wholesale. Typically it is 10%-30% less than wholesale. And a couple times a year most companies offer seasonal specials.

There are multiple prodeal websites that offer industry deals in case you do not work for a retail store or gym. Sometimes individuals can even sign up for these sites, as long as you are an "industry professional" or "work" in the industry or can explain why you should have access.

Outdoorprolink.com (climbing/camping/etc.)
3point5.com (everything else)
promotive.com (everything else)

Or you can check out ridiculous deals around the interwebs. You know the usual.
Sierratradingpost.com
altrec.com
bc.com
Steepandcheap.com

With all this being said i love prodeals and wish all my friends had them so they wouldn't be jealous and want to use my gear all the time. However, i don't mind letting them use the gear and spreading the love...and hopefully they'll pick up some new gear too.

In this age of internet retail, I've often wondered if someone like BD, DMM, etc etc could go almost ALL internet sales at a near pro-deal price. You could sell at a lower margin to "real" climbing shops to keep them in the game (which we would want) and then sell direct to customers online with a higher-yet-pro-deal-like price.

Probably not possible but a thought...

Seriously, how many climbers by full priced from REI?

mattm wrote:In this age of internet retail, I've often wondered if someone like BD, DMM, etc etc could go almost ALL internet sales at a near pro-deal price. You could sell at a lower margin to "real" climbing shops to keep them in the game (which we would want) and then sell direct to customers online with a higher-yet-pro-deal-like price. Probably not possible but a thought... Seriously, how many climbers by full priced from REI?

The issue is overhead. Wholesale covers production overhead, while retail markup covers retail overhead. Its not like a mail order company can just magically eliminate the latter but still sell stuff profitably.

Brian, eliminating brick-n-mortar related retail overhead costs is basically the entire original Amazon.com biz model...and it has been wildly successful...you might have noticed the Borders is going tits-up.

So while you're right that you can't eliminate ALL the overhead..advertising, order processing, web/computer, handling..you can certainly eliminate and drastically reduce a lot of it...prime retail location lease, sales staff, etc. It's very possible to run a climbing gear only webstore by yourself out of the garage and/or a spare bedroom...and you'll get a tax break for home office to boot.

mattm wrote:Seriously, how many climbers by full priced from REI?

Probabyl not that many. However, if you were to ask the question, "how many people buy climbing gear from REI at full price," the answer would be "a lot."

mattnorville wrote:prodeals are a godsend especially when you only make seven and change working at the gym

Free gym access and a cush job getting paid to hang out in a gym with your friends where you probably spend most your free time anyway - those are the perks to working in a gym. Most of us had to work low wage jobs in school, I would have been pretty damn happy had it been in a gym even without a prodeal.

Will S wrote:Brian, eliminating brick-n-mortar related retail overhead costs is basically the entire original Amazon.com biz model...and it has been wildly successful...you might have noticed the Borders is going tits-up. So while you're right that you can't eliminate ALL the overhead..advertising, order processing, web/computer, handling..you can certainly eliminate and drastically reduce a lot of it...prime retail location lease, sales staff, etc. It's very possible to run a climbing gear only webstore by yourself out of the garage and/or a spare bedroom...and you'll get a tax break for home office to boot.

But you're crazy if you think that'll cut your overhead enough to cut even 30% off climbing gear msrp. You gotta pay for warehouse space, and shipping to your warehouse, and order processing, and website support, and on and on. Sure, you can save a lot on overhead if you're seeing a few dozen orders a week, but you won't pay your bills on that.

Amazon thrives because standard retail markup is so high that paying only shipping clerks and web developers is cheap compared to a dozen member sales staff plus your logistical team. Ask any climbing store, their sales staff is their logistical team.

Also, having worked at climbing gyms for quite a few years, you can often just get burnt out on climbing culture. Its great if you're a student, work part-time, and have other sources of income, but if its your only source of income, or you work full-time, you don't want to come in and train during your off time. The key feature to any job is that you have to do it even when you don't want to.

We got pro deals at a gym a worked at back in NY in the early 90's. I thought it odd as there was only a handful of us that worked there that actually climbed outdoors. But I think they give the pro deals, because the companies wanted us to show off their stuff so it exposed the general public to their product better than any print advertisement could. "Hey look at the cool instructor with that cool Marmot vest. I want one." Hell we even got pro deals on gear! THat's how I got all my metolius cams on the cheap. When I look at the mark-up on everything I hate to pay full price for anything I wear or gear I use.

Wait - you actually pay to climb in a gym? what a weird concept...

John Wilder wrote:Gyms dont offer industry pros a discount because industry pros get their own discount directly through the manufacturer- pro deals are limited to staff via the pro deal contract, its not up to the gym.

Not sure I catch your drift:

So the gyms don't want to offer discounts to industry pros because the industry pros get their gear discounted?

Then why would a manufacturer offer a discount to gym staff when said gym staff get their gym membership comped?

Josh Cameron wrote:I know a guy in South Lake Tahoe who works with the local SAR team. He buys stuff on pro deal and resells it to his "friends" at a profit. Need I say he's also a trust fund baby, but, hey, what are friends for?

Hundreds of climbers do this.

Why not? This is a capitalist market place no?

It's an unethical business practice that breaches the pro-deal contract.

Mike Morin wrote:unethical business practice .

Ha ha, nice oxymoron.

People buy stocks, then sell them later at a higher price. Is that unethical?

Do people with pro deals sign a contract?