What is YOUR definition of 'send'?

Im a long-time user of this site's resources but I just recently signed up so that I could make this post. I want feedback from the climbing community so I can develop a definition for a 'send'

this is what I've come up with so far

SEND (send) v.
Term used by rock climbers; an abbreviation of the word acsend. To successfully climb a route from start to finish without falling, cleanly and without any assistance (i.e. short roping, dabbing)

I would love any feedback so my definition accurately reflects the views of the climbing community. Im going to use the definition as a part of one of my designs for my clothing company, Sendaholic. Thanks in advance.

I don't claim to be any sort of authority but my definition would be as follows:

If free climbing: Ascending a route or problem in a single push without the assistance of gear which would include but is not limited to; stepping on/pulling on bolts, pulling on quickdraws, pulling on traditional gear, pulling on the rope, resting on the rope/taking halfway, etc.

IMHO sending means making it to the top any way possible in any style (including possibly falling a few times) as opposed to redpointing where you free climb the route without falling or assistance.

sending is red-pointing, flashing, or on-sighting a route. If you hang pull on gear etc. you haven't sent the route.

I would equate it to red-point. Normally I would use 'flash' and 'onsight' for further clarification, if applicable. In all other instances, I just say I 'climbed' the route (could be falls, hang-dogs, aid, or any other method of 'cheating').

Just out of curiosity I was wondering how many of you consider a clean top-rope ascent to "count" for climbing the route. I know many people (myself included) "rehearse" a climb on top rope many times first, (especially to work out any tricky gear placements) and then go for the lead. All those times you were on TR, did you "send it", or is there some other cryptic climbing terminology out there that no-one can seem to agree on for such a circumstance?

Sometimes a clean toprope ascent is good enough for me. The highest ethic is ground up onsight, with no information other than what can be contained in a few sentences. Don't get me wrong, I call TR rehearsed redpoints a 'send'.

green-point = clean TR
red-point = clean lead without preplaced gear
pink-point = clean lead with preplaced gear (not a send for trad, but usually considered a red-point for sport)

Not sure where I heard this first... about a decade ago.

The line between 'onsight' and 'flash' can be blurry though... sometimes a chalked hold seems to discount the possibility of a 'true onsight'.

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.

Greg D wrote:. Pre rehearsed, pre inspected is a Brown Point. Plain and simple. Tainted and soiled.

Under this logic I think you would be publicly acknowledging that every single climber who has pushed the sport forward in the past several decades is a "brown-pointer". Many of the best in every climbing discipline (bouldering, sport, trad, alpine, etc.) publicly discuss how they worked out sections under the safest possible conditions, then finally linked them all together for the official "send".

And I will bet $1,000,000 that you have done the EXACT same thing.

whether it be on a boulder, big wall, or woody, you have never
1. top roped it first?
2. planned out your placements?
3. inspected holds?

Im not sure if Sharma, Caldwell, Woods, etc etc would appreciate being called lame, wussy, or gay.

Besides, this isnt a discussion of "is top-roping climbing" this is a discussion on the definition of a send.

now we have your sarcastic opinion. the climbing community can sleep easier tonight knowing that among all of us wussies there are some real men among us.

Bill C. wrote: Under this logic I think you would be publicly acknowledging that every single climber who has pushed the sport forward in the past several decades is a "brown-pointer".

Yes, I am acknowledging this publicly.

Bill C. wrote:And I will bet $1,000,000 that you have done the EXACT same thing. whether it be on a boulder, big wall, or woody, you have never 1. top roped it first? 2. planned out your placements? 3. inspected holds?

I prefer cash, gold or silver, cause you are wrong. The only preplanning I have done is from the ground or on lead.

Bill C. wrote:Im not sure if Sharma, Caldwell, Woods, etc etc would appreciate being called lame, wussy, or gay.

I didn't call anybody lame, wussy or gay. But, these guys have many Brown Points under their belts. Not trying to put anybody down. It is just very different when you rehearse routes or rap inspect them vs ground up leading. One is very physically and mentally challenging, the other, not so much. That is why some people tr some things first. It is easier. It is safer. It is browner!

So what are some things that would disqualify me from getting a 'send' that apply to all of the various definitions of the word that we all have? I think we can all agree hanging on a bolt would be one. What about having a belayer short rope you? Or dabbing? What about sticking a move out of luck, one you couldn't do again?....What are some more universal disqualifiers?
I'm trying to create a definition that is vague enough to apply to anyones personal definition but is still descriptive enough to explain the word to a non-climber. Something the majority of the climbing community could agree on.

Trolling?
When I posted this topic I mentioned that I own a clothing line called Sendaholic. When people wear my shirts, non-climbers often ask them 'what is send and/or sendaholic?". I thought it would make for a good design/be funny to have the defintion of 'send' on the back of some of my shirts. I didn't want use my own personal definition of the word, I wanted to create a definition that reflected the collective ideas of the climbing community.
I don't see how any of that makes me a 'troll'?

Joe Virtanen wrote:I don't claim to be any sort of authority but my definition would be as follows: If free climbing: Ascending a route or problem in a single push without the assistance of gear which would include but is not limited to; stepping on/pulling on bolts, pulling on quickdraws, pulling on traditional gear, pulling on the rope, resting on the rope/taking halfway, etc.

I would like to add to this for me that on a trad route - placing the gear as I climb. But sport - prehung is OK.

Greg, I'm with you. I do not rehearse climbs on TR prior to attempting to lead from the ground up. I feel that leading things on-sight is a better measure of my true ability and how I prefer to approach this sport. As for the definition of "send," I don't really care. I climb to enjoy the route and the experience, which seems purer when you just rope up and climb.

This thread blows.

hey everyone, I just did a climb last week where I stickclipped the fourth bolt so that I could TR the crux, but then I fell above that point trying to clip a cam that my partner had placed. Fortunately, there was a no hand rest that I lowered back down to, so I kept the purity of the line and climbed from there.

The question is, should I have worn my Assanazi velcros or my Moccasyns for the trad smearing section?

WHAT DO YOU THINK???

Sendaholic wrote:Im a long-time user of this site's resources but I just recently signed up so that I could make this post. I want feedback from the climbing community so I can develop a definition for a 'send' this is what I've come up with so far SEND (send) v. Term used by rock climbers; an abbreviation of the word acsend. To successfully climb a route from start to finish without falling, cleanly and without any assistance (i.e. short roping, dabbing) I would love any feedback so my definition accurately reflects the views of the climbing community. Im going to use the definition as a part of one of my designs for my clothing company, Sendaholic. Thanks in advance.

It just means to to be successful doing it in the style you set out to. But it has nothing to do with "ascend" (or whatever you were trying to spell) and mentioning that is going to get you a lot of the troll and lame comments.

Hint - like a lot of the other slang that permeates the sport climbing culture - this is an example of lingo that crossed over from other "extreme" sports. I'm probably 3 ties your age and even I know that.

camhead- that was a failed send. Ground to anchors w/out a flub.
Sticklers on the rules of send are exactly like the guy who when you go golfing hits you up for a stroke for every footwedge he catches you doing. Might as well carry around scorecards and tiny pencils.

Mike Lane wrote:camhead- that was a failed send. Ground to anchors w/out a flub. Sticklers on the rules of send are exactly like the guy who when you go golfing hits you up for a stroke for every footwedge he catches you doing. Might as well carry around scorecards and tiny pencils.

I'm not asking if it's a send; I already filled out my 8a.nu scorecard, plenty of people saw the ascent, and it was definitely a send since I did all the moves free. I just treated it as two pitches divided by a big rest ledge. You're outdated dogma is holding this sport back.

Though I do think it would have been better style if I had worn different shoes.

camhead wrote: I'm not asking if it's a send; I already filled out my 8a.nu scorecard, plenty of people saw the ascent, and it was definitely a send since I did all the moves free. I just treated it as two pitches divided by a big rest ledge. You're outdated dogma is holding this sport back. Though I do think it would have been better style if I had worn different shoes.

Camhead, don't worry about the shoes, if you were wearing a bikini nobody would be questioning, either they would not care because they were so enthralled or they would have been so disgusted that you could tell them you climbed it upside down and backwards.

camhead wrote: I just treated it as two pitches divided by a big rest ledge. You're outdated dogma is holding this sport back. Though I do think it would have been better style if I had worn different shoes.

Funny.
Everyone knows wearing one of each is the ultimate in stylin (or is that too '80's?)