Climbing on a single half/twin rope
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Please refrain from the "only use climbing gear as its intended" comments I'm interested in the details here" |
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Yup, climb on a single 8.5 Genesis. |
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I do it. Usually when soloing is not desired and the leader will not fall but the follower wants a rope or simulclimbing. I also have a 30m glacier rope for short roping my wife or someone else up a short technical section in the alpine or a quick rappel. |
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I climb on a single 8.9 mammut serenity |
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Awesome! Thanks for input! |
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Maybe this is ridiculously stupid but... |
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Wannabe wrote:Maybe this is ridiculously stupid but... I've been looking at the Verglas as well because of its versatility and I was also considering bringing just one 60m and doubling it in half (and knoting one end of course) on moderate stuff if a partner and I needed to pitch it out. Belay just like a regular twin rope. My potentially bad .02If you got a bi-color or bi-pattern rope this might be doable but perhaps my intentions were not too clear. My desire is to have the ability to make a 60m rappel (thus: need two 60s). I also hate having to deal with belaying two ropes when its not necessary (such as a lot of alpine situations where falling is unlikely but you do want to prevent disaster). Its possible to meet both those needs with - A single 60m and a tagline - but taglines aren't cheap and its sort of a niche piece. I also hate spending money on niche pieces of equipment. In this setup, its also harder to share loads since the single (9mil) weighs much more than the tag (5-6mil). - Two single ropes - this is heavy One of the advantages with half ropes is that you can avoid rope drag by clipping alternating pieces - this is what you will accomplish if you were to double up a single 60m rope as you suggested. This technique though would limit you to climbing only 30m and unless the halves were REALLY distinguished it would be hard to recognize which one to clip. Usually with half ropes they make one blue and one neon yellow or something obvious. The idea I was trying to pose was bringing two 60m half/twin ropes so that on a difficult pitch you can use them properly (read: together) and also be able to make a 200 foot rap if you need to bail. By climbing the easier pitches and traveling on glaciers with the 1-half/twin you merely save time on rope management and can therefore move quicker. I think the approach you are considering would work, although it might be somewhat sloppy. |
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Wannabe wrote:Belay just like a regular twin rope.I missed this in your post. THIS IS IMPORTANT Remember that to climb on TWINS, you clip both strands to each piece. When you do this, you put two springs in parallel (a rope is a spring) and thus double their stiffness (k). This means that the rope needs to be specifically design for this application and be made less stiff. There can also be abrasion between the two ropes in a fall and so twins tend to be designed so that they won't cut through each other. As far as I know - there is no single rope that is rated also as a twin rope because single ropes are designed to be used alone (hence the name). I think your technique would probably work in HALF-ROPE-MODE where you alternate clipping ropes into a piece but never clip both ropes into the same piece. Some ropes (like the PMI Verglas) are rated as halfs and twins so that you can do either - but this is not the norm. Make sure you understand the difference between the Half and Twin technique and never clip two non twins to the same piece. |
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Based on my quick calculations (and assuming the numbers quoted online are correct), you could save about 19 oz over 60 meters between a thin single like the Sterling Nano and the PMI verglas. That is a pretty huge difference in my book. |
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Yea i'm not saying it's insignificant. it's just not enough weight to be worth the risks/downsides most of the time for me. My partner's ropes are heavier than the verglass too which closes the real world gap in my case. There are instances where I would take the lightest cord I had which would end up being a single half rope. when there was no nano in the quiver it was more attractive. |
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Sorry Chris...it probably didn't seem like it, but my post wasn't specifically directed at you. It wasn't my intent to be snarky. :-) I was just trying to figure out the weight difference and thought others might be interested. |
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There was a very good thread about using single ropes over on Cascade Climbers: |
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Using a single 7.5 Mammut Twilight half-rope on a classic mountaineering route - The Midi Plan Traverse - in the Alps. |
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Hey John, |
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John, good topic and I think this thread has already answered your question. I just wanted to reiterate that I often times bring along a single half-rope to save weight, under certain circumstances: |
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YER GUNNA DIE! |
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John Maguire wrote: As far as I know - there is no single rope that is rated also as a twin rope because single ropes are designed to be used alone (hence the name).Actually the Beal Joker is certified as a single, half & twin. It is a super-versatile rope, but at 9.1mm will be heavier than the ones you are talking about. might be a good rope to pair with a skinnier rope rated for half & twin though. the metolius monster comes in at 7.8mm, so paired with a 9.1 would probably weight as much as a standard pair of halfs. although personally i have found super skinny ropes not to be worth the weight savings in use. the skinnier the rope, the more tangles, rope messes, wind issues, stuck when pulling, etc. issues you seem to have. these seem to be more problematic on rock routes than ice. |
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(I have and regularly use the PMI 8.1 ropes) |
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Relistically, every fall onto a double rope is the same as a single-rope fall, unless you have them clipped like twins. |
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Chris Drover wrote:I don't mean any offense, but trailing one perfectly good rope as a tagline and leading on a marginal rope just seems silly.Silly until you realize how much time is spent on rope management while climbing on two strands. I'm definitely no expert on it, but the times I've been part of a multi-rope team, the extra time spent flaking was frustrating, especially during poor weather and small belay ledges. I get what you're saying, but I think the efficiency improvements are absolutely worth it. And all other things being equal, less time in the danger zone = lower chance of danger. |