Ice climbing grading system
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I am a trad and sport climbing boulderer who aid climbs occasionally. I do not understand the grading system for ice climbing (the W# system I think) and I am curious. Can anyone explain it to me? |
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this was taken from iceclimbingcolorado.com/rat… |
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David Hertel wrote:also, can anyone explain the ice rating NEI# i understand that WI is (water ice) but what is NEI?NEI = New England Ice. It's basically the same system, except for adjustments to allow for local variations in the force of gravity. |
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The NEI rating system originally started in the early 1970 was an adaptation of the Scottish ice grading system which was/is a system that numerically rates climbs 1-6. Soon pluses and minuses were added to the number. Eventually as New England climbers traveled more to other areas that rated climbs with the WI system, they incorporated that rating system into their own. |
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Could someone also explain when/how the switch over to Mixed' rating also starts, and how it compares to direct WI ice ratings? Is it open ended sort of like Aussie's rock climbing is? |
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I haven't said this in a while...Do a search!! |
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Amen, Scott. I don't mind answering questions, but when the information is only a click away... the alpinist site has a copy of the AAJ's grading appendix - click on grade comparison chart: |
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The above grade descriptions seem a little light from my experience in the Northeast. This is an excerpt from the American Alpine Club that matches my experience on WI2-3 and perceptions of WI4. Note that WI3 has "long bulges of 80-90 deg" and WI4 runs continuously at 80 deg and above: WI 1: Low angle ice you can walk on. |
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Paul Tompkins wrote: Is it a coincidence that you resurrected this thread an entire decade later to the exact day? |
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Paul Tompkins wrote: The problem with classic descriptions like these is they don't address "bouldery" difficulties on an ice pitch. Some years ago I led a pitch of delightful 3+ ice. But to get on it we had to pull past a 2 ft overhang onto a thin sheet of ice. Next to nothing for the feet so it was basically campusing up a couple moves. But it was no more than 6 feet of this and the rest was cruiser. See this pic: |
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I have never ice climbed out of the North east USA but this is my take on NH,VT and NY. plus grades = full grades on ice. Minus grades = 1/2 grades. one or two move wonders usually end up being called 3+ even if that one move is a 5+ move.... classic example of a grade 3+ that can have a 4+ move on it. Pegasus rock finish. of course ice difficulty is entirely dependent on conditions. generaly speaking warmer temps equals easier climbing. colder temps make it harder. literally. NH is easier than VT NY is easier than VT grade 4 and under but 4+ in the daks is a Smuggs rateing. Smugs is stupid sandbagged compared to the rest of the region. This is easy gully Smuggs 1 to 2.which is actually pretty close to true but the funny one is just to the right Black Sunshine Smuggs 3 to4 the rappel rope is in easy Gully. Black Sunshine is the line on the right. And Ragnarock is only 4+ my ass ;)Meanwhile in NH Within Reason WI6 can be a Completely reasonable grade 4- :) heck I just tagged a line up when I led it .. Who knew I could solo grade 6 :) Its all about the conditions... So in short ice grades are completly subject to conditions, completely subjective and remarkably consistent all things considered with the exception of Smuggs and a few other spots. Enough of the sandbagged examples here is a shot at average grades. WI1. Steep snow ,frozen snow, neve, frozen granular and short sections of low angle water ice. Example Central Gully Mt Washington and most New England ski trails Martin Luther King weekend. May also be called packed powder by certain less scrupulous resorts. WI2, low angle water ice with very short sections of almost steep ice. Shoestring and Parasol Gully WI3. moderate ice with short steep sections. Screws can be placed from stances. Jaws. Pitch 1 of Shaker Heights. WI4. Steep ice with rests. screws with be placed on vertical terrain. Auclard. WI4+ more sustained steep ice with less rests or short skinny steep ice with more technicle moves. 20 Below Zero Gully. Orcs and Goblins WI5 The last Gentleman. Glass MenagerieWI5+ long sustained serious steep ice with candled and or mushroomed ice. Le Promenade. Mindbender. |
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Damn Nick, great photos! Its painful to look at them right now though; like looking a photos of ex lovers while crying alone into your beer sitting at a table covered with unpaid bills. |
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> WI1. Steep snow ,frozen snow, neve, frozen granular and short sections of low angle water ice. Example Central Gully Mt Washington and most New England ski trails Martin Luther King weekend. May also be called packed powder by certain less scrupulous resorts. F'in genius! |
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Nick Goldsmith wrote: Apparently, rockfall has changed how that drip forms. See the comment here |
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and i suppose it also turned the Clawsicle into a 3+ ;) |
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In my experience, Northeast (New York, New England) grades are sandbagged; a half grade lower than WI ratings outside of the region. For example, a NEI3+ will usually be a WI4 out West. Also conditions driven. Northeast 0°F is NOT EQUAL to 0°F out in the Rockies. |
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Ben Garza wrote: That's because we use celsius scale in the Canadian Rockies. |
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Nick Goldsmith wrote: yep, that ^^^^ i'll take steep, fat, and plastic over low angle, thin, and friable any day... |
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Ile take steep fat and plastic over steep and bullet proof any day ;) |
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Ben Garza wrote: a NEI3+ will usually be a WI4 out West.Pray tell, what’s the grade equivalency of NEI and Cody WI grades? |
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I find ice grading "systems" of little use - have climbed classics rated WI5 in WI3 conditions, and conversely have been scared shitless on WI3 in other conditions. I use a three level rating system: WI-fun -- self explanatory WI-whine -- my lead standard since 1972 WI-no -- cant get up it anyway, so doesn't matter -Haireball |