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Ice climbing grading system

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JSlack · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 155

I am a trad and sport climbing boulderer who aid climbs occasionally. I do not understand the grading system for ice climbing (the W# system I think) and I am curious. Can anyone explain it to me?

David Hertel · · Haines, Alaska · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 785

this was taken from iceclimbingcolorado.com/rat…

WI 1 – Not really a practical grade, think walking on low angled ice in a stream bed or something of that nature.

WI 2 – Ice up to 60 degrees in steepness. Good terrain for beginners to learn on.

WI 3 – Generally between 70 and 80 degrees, perhaps with a few small vertical steps.

WI 4 – More sustained ice of up to 85 degrees, may include short vertical stretches separated by good stances.

WI 5 – A steep and strenous pitch of vertical ice, with occassional rests. May also include good, thin ice.

WI 6 – Think vertical ice for a long ways. No rests here, better bring your guns and a solid head. Sometimes pro is not very good either on these pitches.

WI 7 – Steep ice with dubious protection, very strenous. There are only a handful of routes in Colorado that have been called WI 7

hope that helps

also, can anyone explain the ice rating NEI# i understand that WI is (water ice) but what is NEI?

Martin le Roux · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 416
David Hertel wrote:also, can anyone explain the ice rating NEI# i understand that WI is (water ice) but what is NEI?
NEI = New England Ice. It's basically the same system, except for adjustments to allow for local variations in the force of gravity.
jack roberts · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 0

The NEI rating system originally started in the early 1970 was an adaptation of the Scottish ice grading system which was/is a system that numerically rates climbs 1-6. Soon pluses and minuses were added to the number. Eventually as New England climbers traveled more to other areas that rated climbs with the WI system, they incorporated that rating system into their own.

It's pretty much accepted that the current NEI rating system is consistent with the WI system. There are still some regional differences whereby NEI takes into account length and seriousness. But since the almost universally accepted rating system is WI, the NEI designation has been dropped from many climbs and route descriptions.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,305

Could someone also explain when/how the switch over to Mixed' rating also starts, and how it compares to direct WI ice ratings? Is it open ended sort of like Aussie's rock climbing is?

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425

I haven't said this in a while...Do a search!!

I'll help...(using google).

alaskaiceclimbing.com/ratin…
terragalleria.com/mountain/…
neice.com/eguide/ratings-fo…

We live in the information age gentlemen...it's all there for the taking.

Graham Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

Amen, Scott. I don't mind answering questions, but when the information is only a click away... the alpinist site has a copy of the AAJ's grading appendix - click on grade comparison chart:
alpinist.com/p/online/grades

If you need more clarification after doing your own research - feel free to ask away

Paul Tompkins · · Kent, WA · Joined Jul 2019 · Points: 5

The above grade descriptions seem a little light from my experience in the Northeast. This is an excerpt from the American Alpine Club that matches my experience on WI2-3 and perceptions of WI4. Note that WI3 has "long bulges of 80-90 deg" and WI4 runs continuously at 80 deg and above:

WI 1: Low angle ice you can walk on.
WI 2: Consistent 60º ice with possible bulges; good protection.
WI 3: Sustained 70º with possible long bulges of 80º-90º; reasonable rests and good stances for placing screws.
WI 4: Multiple pitches of continuous 80º ice, or a single pitch containing fairly long sections of 90º ice broken up by occasional rests.
WI 5: Long and strenuous, with a ropelength of 85º-90º ice offering few good rests; or a shorter pitch of thin or bad ice with reasonable protection that’s difficult to place.
WI 6: A full ropelength of near-90º ice, or a shorter pitch even more tenuous than WI 5. Highly technical and very scary.
WI 7: As above, but on thin poorly bonded ice or long, overhanging poorly adhered columns. Protection is impossible or very difficult to place and of dubious quality.
WI 8: Coming soon.

Kevin Mcbride · · Canmore AB · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 505
Paul Tompkins wrote:

The above grade descriptions seem a little light from my experience in the Northeast. This is an excerpt from the American Alpine Club that matches my experience on WI2-3 and perceptions of WI4. Note that WI3 has "long bulges of 80-90 deg" and WI4 runs continuously at 80 deg and above:

WI 1: Low angle ice you can walk on.
WI 2: Consistent 60º ice with possible bulges; good protection.
WI 3: Sustained 70º with possible long bulges of 80º-90º; reasonable rests and good stances for placing screws.
WI 4: Multiple pitches of continuous 80º ice, or a single pitch containing fairly long sections of 90º ice broken up by occasional rests.
WI 5: Long and strenuous, with a ropelength of 85º-90º ice offering few good rests; or a shorter pitch of thin or bad ice with reasonable protection that’s difficult to place.
WI 6: A full ropelength of near-90º ice, or a shorter pitch even more tenuous than WI 5. Highly technical and very scary.
WI 7: As above, but on thin poorly bonded ice or long, overhanging poorly adhered columns. Protection is impossible or very difficult to place and of dubious quality.
WI 8: Coming soon.

Is it a coincidence that you resurrected this thread an entire decade later to the exact day?

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,687
Paul Tompkins wrote:

The above grade descriptions seem a little light from my experience in the Northeast. This is an excerpt from the American Alpine Club that matches my experience on WI2-3 and perceptions of WI4. Note that WI3 has "long bulges of 80-90 deg" and WI4 runs continuously at 80 deg and above:

WI 1: Low angle ice you can walk on.
WI 2: Consistent 60º ice with possible bulges; good protection.
WI 3: Sustained 70º with possible long bulges of 80º-90º; reasonable rests and good stances for placing screws.
WI 4: Multiple pitches of continuous 80º ice, or a single pitch containing fairly long sections of 90º ice broken up by occasional rests.
WI 5: Long and strenuous, with a ropelength of 85º-90º ice offering few good rests; or a shorter pitch of thin or bad ice with reasonable protection that’s difficult to place.
WI 6: A full ropelength of near-90º ice, or a shorter pitch even more tenuous than WI 5. Highly technical and very scary.
WI 7: As above, but on thin poorly bonded ice or long, overhanging poorly adhered columns. Protection is impossible or very difficult to place and of dubious quality.
WI 8: Coming soon.

The problem with classic descriptions like these is they don't address "bouldery" difficulties on an ice pitch. Some years ago I led a pitch of delightful 3+ ice. But to get on it we had to pull past a 2 ft overhang onto a thin sheet of ice. Next to nothing for the feet so it was basically campusing up a couple moves. But it was no more than 6 feet of this and the rest was cruiser. See this pic:

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

I have never ice climbed out of the North east USA  but this is my take on NH,VT and NY.  plus grades = full grades on ice. Minus grades = 1/2 grades.   one or two move wonders usually end up being called 3+ even if that one move is a 5+ move....  classic example of a grade 3+ that can have a 4+ move on it. Pegasus  rock finish. 

of course ice difficulty is entirely dependent on conditions. generaly speaking warmer temps equals easier climbing. colder temps make it harder. literally. NH is easier than VT NY is easier than VT grade 4 and under but 4+ in the daks is a Smuggs rateing. Smugs is stupid sandbagged compared to the rest of the region. This is easy gully Smuggs 1 to 2.

which is actually pretty close to true  but the funny one is just to the right Black Sunshine Smuggs 3 to4 the rappel rope is in easy Gully. Black Sunshine is the line on the right. 

  And Ragnarock is only 4+ my ass ;)

Meanwhile in NH  Within Reason WI6 can be a Completely reasonable grade 4-  :) heck I just tagged a line up when I led it .. Who knew I could solo grade 6 :)      Its all about the conditions... 

So in short ice grades are completly subject to conditions, completely subjective and remarkably consistent  all things considered with the exception of Smuggs and a few other spots. 

 Enough of the sandbagged examples here is a shot at  average grades.

WI1. Steep snow ,frozen snow, neve, frozen granular and short sections of low angle water ice. Example Central Gully Mt Washington and most New England ski trails Martin Luther King weekend. May also be called packed powder by certain less scrupulous resorts. 

WI2,  low angle water ice with  very short sections of almost steep ice.  Shoestring 

and Parasol Gully

WI3. moderate ice with short steep sections. Screws can be placed from stances.  Jaws. 

Pitch 1 of Shaker Heights.

WI4. Steep ice with rests. screws with be placed on vertical terrain.   Auclard.

WI4+ more sustained steep ice with less rests or short skinny steep ice with more technicle moves.  20 Below Zero Gully.

Orcs and Goblins

WI5 The last Gentleman.

Glass Menagerie
 

WI5+ long sustained serious steep ice with candled and or mushroomed ice. 

Le Promenade. 

Mindbender. 

  
Ira OMC · · Hardwick, VT , Bisbee, AZ · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 414

Damn Nick, great photos! Its painful to look at them right now though; like looking a photos of ex lovers while crying alone into your beer sitting at a table covered with unpaid bills. 

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,687

> WI1. Steep snow ,frozen snow, neve, frozen granular and short sections of low angle water ice. Example Central Gully Mt Washington and most New England ski trails Martin Luther King weekend. May also be called packed powder by certain less scrupulous resorts.

F'in genius!

Nol H · · Vermont · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 2,153
Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Meanwhile in NH  Within Reason WI6 can be a Completely reasonable grade 4-  :) heck I just tagged a line up when I led it .. Who knew I could solo grade 6 :)      Its all about the conditions... 

Apparently, rockfall has changed how that drip forms. See the comment here

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

and i suppose it also turned the Clawsicle into a 3+  ;) 

Ben Garza · · Fredericksburg, VA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 15

In my experience, Northeast (New York, New England) grades are sandbagged; a half grade lower than WI ratings outside of the region. For example, a NEI3+ will usually be a WI4 out West. 

Also conditions driven. Northeast 0°F is NOT EQUAL to 0°F out in the Rockies.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847
Ben Garza wrote:

Also conditions driven. Northeast 0°F is NOT EQUAL to 0°F out in the Rockies.

That's because we use celsius scale in the Canadian Rockies.

old5ten · · Sunny Slopes + Berkeley, CA · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 5,806
Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Its all about the conditions... 

yep, that ^^^^

i'll take steep, fat, and plastic over low angle, thin, and friable any day...

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

Ile take steep fat and plastic over steep and bullet proof any day ;) 

Jack Yip · · San Jose, CA · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 155
Ben Garza wrote: a NEI3+ will usually be a WI4 out West. 
Pray tell, what’s the grade equivalency of NEI and Cody WI grades?
Curt Haire · · leavenworth, wa · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 1

I find ice grading "systems" of little use - have climbed classics rated WI5 in WI3 conditions, and conversely have been scared shitless on WI3 in other conditions.  I use a three level rating system:

WI-fun -- self explanatory

WI-whine -- my lead standard since 1972

WI-no -- cant get up it anyway, so doesn't matter

-Haireball

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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