Screwgate vs autolocking biners

I'm new to climbing and just starting to buy some of my own gear. There seems to be good information on the trade-offs of various types of gear decisions but I haven't found any clear explanation of the relative merits of screwgate vs autolocking carabiners. I'd be grateful for any illumination.

They say you should not use an auto locker for a Meunter as it could wrap around the locking mechanism and undo it.

Screw locks are sometimes forgotten to be locked.

Those are the issues but both are fine.

I use an autolocker for my grigri and a screwlock for everything else. Screwlocks are simpler and potentially easier to verify. For anchors and stuff, it's worth considering that most small to medium lockers are only available in a screwlock. My buddy uses a Petzl triact-lock for his ATC and I hate the thing. Also worth considering, autolockers are supposedly less than ideal for ice climbing/cold weather. YMMV.

The desert and auto lockers dont go well together. The gate gets jammed up too easily turning them into manual lockers anyways. Id go with the screwgate and learn to always double check. Just my two cents.

You'll probably end up with both as they have their merits etc.

Screwlocks -
Can get stuck easily,
If not orientated downward "could" come unscrewed
Can forget to close
Can freeze easily

Auto Lock -
Quicker to clip in
"Could" come unscrewed by movement etc.
Although less to mess with, seperates you from the "double check" aspect of your anchor a little (IMO).

I actually use both and have had suceess either way. I started using an auto for ice so I can clip in with bulky gloves on. No freezing issues so far.

I use 2 autolockers: one for my belay device and one for my tether. Everything else is screwgates. Screwgates can possobly work themselves unlocked, especially if they are new. But they are cheaper and if double checked are usually fine.

For the most part I have screw-locking biners. I do have one auto-locking biner. When I take my daughter that one goes on her. It just gives me a little peace of mind knowing she wont forget to lock it (I always double check before she goes up anyway). It's also a little easier for her to unclip when she is done climbing as the screws can sometimes get tightened down pretty good.

I use both, I generally use the autolockers for belaying and anything i need to move quickly. For things that will be there a while like an anchor i use screwgates with a bit of tape for insurance. but they both have their issues, nothing is perfect.

I only own screw locks, the few times I have used other peoples auto locks I've had a devil of a time working them smoothly. That is probably because I rarely use them so I find them clunky so I rarely use them. I've found you can never have too many and a couple of different styles are never a bad thing. The BD Rocklock is my favorite for anchors, It is pretty darn big and you can get a good 3 or 4 strand top shelf and a clove hitch on one without a struggle. I use Petzl Attache for belay devices it has a handy red stripe on the gate and is very beefy. I also carry assorted smaller pear styles for clipping pieces in less than ideal situations.

In my opinion, autolockers are useless pieces of crap in all but a limited set of specialty applications. They have ambiguous benefit over their regular screw locking brethren in even their most common application as belay 'biners.

Se here for a full write-up I did on climbing carabiners:
knol.google.com/k/carabiner#

The supposed benefit to an autolockers is that the user does not need to take the .2 seconds to screw the gate shut before use, and that it will supposedly lock itself again should it become undone for some reason.

1) They're heavier
2) They're harder to use one-handed
3) They're more expensive
4) They're far more likely to get gunked up
5) The "time savings" is mitigated by the fact that you have to unlock the damn thing every time you take it off or put it on your harness.
6) They don't always lock themselves properly. You still have to check to make sure it's locked.
7) They're fiddly.

Most importantly, you're a beginner, so you should be getting into having good habits. You shouldn't be relying on auto-anything.

I have an autolocker on my belay device. Not because I need the reminder about locking my belay carabiner, but because I want to make sure that I'm actually grabbing the belay device, rather than something else, just by feel. I may eventually switch back to a screwgate for the belay device, provided I can find one that has a sufficiently different feeling gate that I don't mistake it for something non-mission critical, or something (like my tether) that I can just unclip from my harness, drop, and let gravity sort out.

shoo wrote:In my opinion, autolockers are useless pieces of crap in all but a limited set of specialty applications. They have ambiguous benefit over their regular screw locking brethren in even their most common application as belay 'biners. Se here for a full write-up I did on climbing carabiners: knol.google.com/k/carabiner# The supposed benefit to an autolockers is that the user does not need to take the .2 seconds to screw the gate shut before use, and that it will supposedly lock itself again should it become undone for some reason. 1) They're heavier 2) They're harder to use one-handed 3) They're more expensive 4) They're far more likely to get gunked up 5) The "time savings" is mitigated by the fact that you have to unlock the damn thing every time you take it off or put it on your harness. 6) They don't always lock themselves properly. You still have to check to make sure it's locked. 7) They're fiddly. Most importantly, you're a beginner, so you should be getting into having good habits. You shouldn't be relying on auto-anything.

I agree 100%

shoo wrote:In my opinion, autolockers are useless pieces of crap in all but a limited set of specialty applications. They have ambiguous benefit over their regular screw locking brethren in even their most common application as belay 'biners. Se here for a full write-up I did on climbing carabiners: knol.google.com/k/carabiner# The supposed benefit to an autolockers is that the user does not need to take the .2 seconds to screw the gate shut before use, and that it will supposedly lock itself again should it become undone for some reason. 1) They're heavier 2) They're harder to use one-handed 3) They're more expensive 4) They're far more likely to get gunked up 5) The "time savings" is mitigated by the fact that you have to unlock the damn thing every time you take it off or put it on your harness. 6) They don't always lock themselves properly. You still have to check to make sure it's locked. 7) They're fiddly. Most importantly, you're a beginner, so you should be getting into having good habits. You shouldn't be relying on auto-anything.

Agree they are useful for gym climbers and noobs who don't check their gear. Otherwise cumbersome, awkward for one handed use and just not needed I say.

MattPeterson wrote:There seems to be good information on the trade-offs of various types of gear decisions but I haven't found any clear explanation of the relative merits of screwgate vs autolocking carabiners.

I use an autolocker for my main locking carabiner on my belay/rappel device both outside and the gym. I like it, because, well, it automatically locks when I let it go. Snap. Voila. Simple.

I only use the ones that work for me one handed. HB is the current one I use.

Used to really like the DMM models with the plastic auto lock. Only took a 1/4 turn to lock them, so, when they got all gummed up with dirt/sand from climbing/canyoning down in Southern Utah, they still worked just fine (but manual) and never failed to open or close when I wanted them to. Unlike a few folks with screw gate lockers who needed pliers to get them to open once they got clogged with sand.

It's all what you get used to using... For anchoring, I prefer a standard screw gate locking carabiner (ditto for pro in some situations). Or, two biners, gates opposite/opposed.

Cheers.

shoo wrote:In my opinion, autolockers are useless pieces of crap in all but a limited set of specialty applications. They have ambiguous benefit over their regular screw locking brethren in even their most common application as belay 'biners. Se here for a full write-up I did on climbing carabiners: knol.google.com/k/carabiner# The supposed benefit to an autolockers is that the user does not need to take the .2 seconds to screw the gate shut before use, and that it will supposedly lock itself again should it become undone for some reason. 1) They're heavier 2) They're harder to use one-handed 3) They're more expensive 4) They're far more likely to get gunked up 5) The "time savings" is mitigated by the fact that you have to unlock the damn thing every time you take it off or put it on your harness. 6) They don't always lock themselves properly. You still have to check to make sure it's locked. 7) They're fiddly. Most importantly, you're a beginner, so you should be getting into having good habits. You shouldn't be relying on auto-anything.

I second that agreement. I did not get my first auto locking HMS until about year one and decided to use it for my PAS so it was a clip and forget system. Other than that, I rely more on my redundant checks to ensure my screw gates are all closed. I prefer screw gate over anything else that has anything that will move around or against rock like top rope system or a belay device. The PAS and anchoring tends to stay away from the wall and doesn't move around much.

I love how adamant folks get about this stuff. (me included) Pick one and use it for a while. Then get the other kind and try it. I like the Auto locking type but mine occasionally will not close. I catch this problem when I do my gate check before the climber leaves the ground. I am good with my hands so it isn't a problem opening or closing it one handed. If your hands are small it can be difficult. You could also ask climbers who have climbed for a while if they have one laying around you can use. Good luck.

hard to operate one-handed and even harder for left handers because the release buttons and twist action is oriented for right handers. :(

But I still use it sometimes with my PAS and belaying with a grigri.

I only use autolockers for my belay device anymore, for the same reason I only buy harnesses that have auto locking buckles anymore: we're human, we get complacent or distracted, and then make mistakes. If Lynn Hill can forget to double back her harness, anyone can. If a I can pay a few bucks more to be safer, why not?

If you hanging autolocks are a bitch to unlock with one hand plus they can get Jamed up. screw gates are lighter cheaper and can be used any were a screwgate can. If u was you buy a few screwgates leave the autolockers at the store.

I used to think that auto lockers were POS, until recently when I tried using one for the first time in ~10 years. I now use it all the time for belaying in the gym, sport, trad, & aid. I use the BD Rocklock.

I find that on long belays, a screw gate can become unscrewed with a little jostling, which is why I decided to try auto lockers again.

Auto lockers are a bit heavier and more expensive. They do bind up easily in the desert, so I would recommend screw gates in sandy areas.

As for the comments about ease of use, I disagree with several people here. After using the auto lock for only a couple hours, I could open and close the 'biner easily with one hand; I can open, close (& lock, of course) the 'biner faster than all of my screw gates (~6-8 different kinds). And I've got small hands.

It's been a long time, but I remember using Petzl Am'D Ball Locks & Omega Pacific Jake Auto Lockers and thinking they both sucked. What I like about the BD Rocklock (linked above) is that you only have to twist the locking mechanism; you don't have any buttons to push and/or mechanisms to slide up or down before twisting it unlocked. I would definitely recommend staying away from the the Petzl and Omega 'biners that I linked in this paragraph.

I just noticed the OP's post is old. What did you wind up buying?

--Marc

Edit: Lately, I've actually been belaying with the BD Gridlock Screwgate and don't have much to complain about it. But give me a little more time..

_

I got a BD Rocklock for belay and use BD screw gates for my limited anchoring tasks. (tying into a belay station on a multi-pitch)

I really like the the Rocklock. I find it very easy to manipulate with one hand and it always locks securely.