Guadalupe National Park

I'm just curious to see what anyone knows about access to climbing in Guadalupe National Park. I realize it's in texas but figured some NM people would know what the deal is. The NP website mentions nothing of climbing. I'm guessing that climbing is prohibited, but it'd be nice to find out if there has been some dialogue or if it's even worth considering digging deeper.

rickd wrote:100% illegal to climb. FA in 1972/3 as I remember with article in climbing magazine way back when. The last I spoke to rangers they said "go to hueco". a friend schlepped out along the base and took photos for us to find a line. not much, he did find some airplane wreckage circa 1998.

Hmmmm....

FA of which formation?
Also which formation did your friend scope?

I'd guess El Capitan?

I used to work for the park service....did a 2 week project in GMNP. I was with several other climbers and we spoke to the parkie's down there. They said there wasn't alot of climbing being done, and that the park tried to keep climbing on the down low. But there was never any mention of it being illegal. I'd doubt it. That was 1998. They embrace the Cavers.

I'd check out Mckitrick(sp?) canyon. We saw a formation back there we were calling the "limestone diamond".
Some huge formations there. Unfortunately i'd guess anything you did would be bolt intensive....it is limestone.
If it wasn't a National park there could be some sick Multi-pitch sport routes!

josh

Thanks for all the information. Sounds like the park would need to be contacted to find out what the deal is these days. If I find anything, I'll post it up.

Necrobump!  

Found this in an online NPS FAQ:

"Is there any technical climbing in the park?Technical climbing is rarely done in the park. It is not considered safe due to the limestone composition of rock. The best place for rock climbing or bouldering is at Hueco Tanks State Park, just east of El Paso, Texas."

Also just pulled an NPS pamphlet for the park while at Hueco Tanks, which states that technical climbing requires a permit.

Cheers, Hamish

Hamish Malin wrote:

Necrobump!  

Found this in an online NPS FAQ:

"Is there any technical climbing in the park?Technical climbing is rarely done in the park. It is not considered safe due to the limestone composition of rock. The best place for rock climbing or bouldering is at Hueco Tanks State Park, just east of El Paso, Texas."

Also just pulled an NPS pamphlet for the park while at Hueco Tanks, which states that technical climbing requires a permit.

Cheers, Hamish

Hahaha! Nice try, NPS!

The "limestone" of the Delaware Basin formations that form the cliffs in the Guadalupes is mostly bullet-hard dolomite. Like most anything, it would need cleaning, but...Have a look at Last Chance Canyon or Sitting Bull Falls to get an taste of what could be in the 2 parks (which each have multipitch potential).

I'd never encourage illegal development, but there is no scarcity of quality rock in the range.

According to a recent conversation with staff - climbing is allowed on El Captain so long as you do not trundle or leave fixed anchors ... heard rumors of a German ascent in the mid 90's ...  

I find it kinda wild that there isn't information on the web regarding these formations being sent... I would guess there has to be a crew of folks who have developed routes here. Walls of this size don't go without notice 

I recall seeing an old photo of Gary Neptune and partner(s) doing a first ascent of a long route on El Capitan. The climb was done in the ‘60s (iirc), before he moved to Colorado. The route had chimneys.

The Permian Reef Geology Trail, above McKittrick Canyon, appears to provide access to the vicinity of an extensive multipitch limestone crag, which has some visible lines. However, if you can see cracks from a distance, those may really be chimneys.

we scoped this out back in the early 90s, but its just so far off the beaten path that we spent the time at the tanks instead.

Several striking crags with multipitch potential in Carlsbad Caverns NP, as well (on NM side). Check out Slaughter Canyon.
Perhaps a better option would be to explore the Lincoln National Forest lands to the north of CCNP. Roads are rough, and access is difficult, but there are some big crags of bullet dolomite in canyons that feed into CCNP, and restrictions ought to be much looser.
CCNP is very concerned with protecting bat habitat, and with concealing locations of undeveloped caves. For these reasons, I'd expect them to quite wary of climbing.

There certainly is a lot of potential for EPIC huge lines along the El Cap/Guadalupe Peak escarpment. It's wild and remote; NPS would not condone it (the "just go to Hueco" attitude is because they don't want to deal with the potential for rescues), but it's totally open and legal for the taking. Expect MAXIMUM adventure!

David A wrote: There certainly is a lot of potential for EPIC huge lines along the El Cap/Guadalupe Peak escarpment. It's wild and remote; NPS would not condone it (the "just go to Hueco" attitude is because they don't want to deal with the potential for rescues), but it's totally open and legal for the taking. Expect MAXIMUM adventure!

Thanks David! This is exactly the kind of response I was looking for!

I work in Guadalupe Mountains doing week long trips a few times a year, and in that, hiked dozens of miles throughout the park. I've definitely seen some amazing looking rock, but given it's mostly wilderness, power drilling is prohibited, making it problematic to develop.

The rock is generally very dense and exceptionally sharp. I've spent days looking up at El Capitan, impressive wall for sure, but with how sharp that rock is, it would indeed be a puckering experience. Might need to wear leather gloves! I truly doubt following cracks in this dolomite would be type-1 fun. That leaves ground-up, hand-drilling on lead with hooking and occasional gear in pockets, overlaps and incipient cracks - loads of work but likely primo quality, six star material! But then, we are not entirely sure on whether the park would condone this kind of activity. Comments saying the official park stance is "go to Heuco Tanks" is still current. I'll ask around a little bit more when I go there in a month. I'd love to climb out there. A solid season of work could establish a 400-500 foot route of impeccable steep, sharp dolomite face climbing, but it would be massive effort.

I need to reiterate how sharp the Guadalupe Mountain formation is! Consider double 9-10 mm ropes and a fresh resole essential.

Hmm. On the fence about making a trad trip out here to check out the climbing potential. Sounds like it is legal, though not recommended... And it's not recommended since the rock is so sharp and it's so remote? I've been climbing on mica schist out here in the east coast and have gotten a bit used to it. Hard to say until you've touched the rock, but wondering how different it is from other limestone monoliths (such as the ones down in Mexico's El Potrero Chico)? Bad idea or no? P.S. I'd likely come with double ropes and a sat phone to be extra safe.

Gui Vendemiatti wrote:

Hmm. On the fence about making a trad trip out here to check out the climbing potential. Sounds like it is legal, though not recommended... And it's not recommended since the rock is so sharp and it's so remote? I've been climbing on mica schist out here in the east coast and have gotten a bit used to it. Hard to say until you've touched the rock, but wondering how different it is from other limestone monoliths (such as the ones down in Mexico's El Potrero Chico)? Bad idea or no? P.S. I'd likely come with double ropes and a sat phone to be extra safe.

Umm...probably a bad idea. You can't really compare this to anything on the east coast. You'll want solid experience developing big walls in ground-up style. Likely lots of bolt drilling. Bringing just a trad rack wouldn't cut it. It's not recommended because of the limited resources regarding potential rescue. EPC is a well developed area that has seen so much traffic, and therefore clean, polished, and relatively solid rock. Guadalupe Mtn/El Capitan is the opposite of that. Not trying to diminish your plans, but any development out there would be pretty full on. Maximum adventure, though, if that is what you are looking for. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climber-dies-fall-guadalupe-mountains-national-park-texas/

Officials warn visitors that most of the rocks within Guadalupe Mountains National Park are highly fractured limestone, and rock climbing or free climbing within the park is prohibited.

After hiking Guadalupe Peak recently I was of course impressed with the crags in the area. Maybe a day will come when the land managers will gravitate toward the climber's point of view. If you are passing through this area I highly recommend the Guadalupe hike and also Carlsbad Caverns.

Is resurrecting a 13 year old thread a record or has someone gone longer?

That sucks about that accident. Doesn't help the case for getting access any..

My Uber driver last night in El Paso was a climber and he was telling me about a 7+ pitch 5.9 he'd repeated on Guadalupe peak (on El Cap I'm guessing)...I was incredulous but he insisted there's a handful of established climbs (and even claimed they were on Mountainproject which is definitely not the case). 

We talked about a bunch of other local climbs that _are_ definitively real (a few formations in the organs, some sport climbing areas, etc) which is making me wonder - what's really out there?

Was he just telling tales or anyone know the details?