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Mechanical Auto Belay

Original Post
Chris D · · the couch · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 2,236

Has anyone else seen this thing?

"Auto belays will lead to an increase in revenue because it will reduce staff costs and facility risks."

Seriously, tho. Thing must be pretty reliable.

Still, for most sociable gym climbers, this will make about as much sense as a robotic pet dog.

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

BRC has a bunch.

Jon Cheifitz · · Superior/Lafayette, Co · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 90

the brc has a couple for a long time, then they were recalled, not sure if they got them back yet. anyone have an update on that? haven't been to the gym in many months. Movement has them too?

Those things aren't anything new and are popular with many gyms.
-Jon

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

BRC specifically has some of the tru blue auto belays up now.

CJ Coccia · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 35
cheifitj wrote:the brc has a couple for a long time, then they were recalled, not sure if they got them back yet. anyone have an update on that? haven't been to the gym in many months. Movement has them too? Those things aren't anything new and are popular with many gyms. -Jon
movement is rocking the standard bars for top rope
Peter Stokes · · Them Thar Hills · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 150

The MSA autobelay devices were recalled for safety concerns (potential one-way bearing failure), and never made it back to the gyms after MSA decided to exit the autobelay business. The TruBlue devices work on a different principle, and so far seem OK... the BRC has several of them, Movement doesn't, and I've heard they don't plan to get any, but I suppose that could change.

climbsill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 0

The BRC has 9 autobelays up. Eight are made by TruBlue, and one is made by Extreme Engineering.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,305

Extreme Engineering has been around a long time; makes belays for moany portable tower designs. TruBlue is a new device handled by Enterprise walls, and is similar to those recalled belays in its compact shape. Our gym is considering getting a couple of 'Blues soon. It does get your single daily climber to come in and pay an entry fee, instead of avoiding the gym with no partner. Gym doesn't have to pay for staff to give belay time when climber is alone. Can see how it would be a money maker, but they are all 2,000 each or more.

Ryan Kelly · · work. · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 2,960

Those things add a small but constant tug on you hips upward and stabilize you into the wall. They add at least a letter grade or two to my gym sends. It's really _the_ way to crush in the gym. On toprope.

CJ Coccia · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 35
Ryan Kelly wrote:Those things add a small but constant tug on you hips upward and stabilize you into the wall. They add at least a letter grade or two to my gym sends. It's really _the_ way to crush in the gym. On toprope.
+2
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485
Ryan Kelly wrote:Those things add a small but constant tug on you hips upward and stabilize you into the wall. They add at least a letter grade or two to my gym sends. It's really _the_ way to crush in the gym. On toprope.
Some tug more than others. The Trublue ones tug less than the extreme engineering one at the BRC. They are annoying sometimes but much better than only bouldering or belayer abuse. Whether they add a letter grade to my sends I don't know but they're great for ARCing (aka belayer abuse).
Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880
Ryan Kelly wrote:Those things add a small but constant tug on you hips upward and stabilize you into the wall. They add at least a letter grade or two to my gym sends. It's really _the_ way to crush in the gym. On toprope.
You have been reported to the authorities. Be sure to check in with the front desk for a dollop of vaseline next time you hit the gym.
Evan1984 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 30
Chris D wrote:Has anyone else seen this thing? Seriously, tho. Thing must be pretty reliable. Still, for most sociable gym climbers, this will make about as much sense as a robotic pet dog.
But for busy people who just want to come in, put on a pump, and don't want to boulder everyday, they make tons of sense. It cuts your workout in half because you aren't belaying a partner.
Tparis · · Pottersville,New York · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 270

I just talked with a client yesterday who replaced his recalled Redpoint(MSA) units with the trublue units. He said the trublues have alot less tension resulting in less pull at the hips but also a very fast descent. Unexperienced climbers are having difficulty keeping their feet in front of them when they descend.
I have installed some of the extreme engineering units as well. They offer the smoothest ride of any that I have ridden but they are bulky, difficult to install, and require more routine maintenance.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,305
Tparis wrote:I just talked with a client yesterday who replaced his recalled Redpoint(MSA) units with the trublue units. He said the trublues have alot less tension resulting in less pull at the hips but also a very fast descent. Unexperienced climbers are having difficulty keeping their feet in front of them when they descend. I have installed some of the extreme engineering units as well. They offer the smoothest ride of any that I have ridden but they are bulky, difficult to install, and require more routine maintenance.
Tru Blue claims a 6 ft/sec decent rate. Agree that the bulky Extreme Engineering units are slow and smooth, but do require more maintenance.
Ryan Kelly · · work. · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 2,960
Chris Plesko wrote: Some tug more than others. The Trublue ones tug less than the extreme engineering one at the BRC. They are annoying sometimes but much better than only bouldering or belayer abuse. Whether they add a letter grade to my sends I don't know but they're great for ARCing (aka belayer abuse).
I suppose, if you’re that opposed to bouldering. I’ve only used an auto-belay once, and that’s because I was stuck at a gym in Kuala Lumpur during Ramadan and there was hardly a soul to be seen. Usually it’s not that hard to find a partner in a gym, and I’ll trust even most noobs when it comes to TR belaying.

However, these auto-belays are usually on a vertical wall, and vertical face climbing is all about balance. You’re lying to yourself if you don’t think that a little tug up and in at the hip is an enormous crutch. These devices are fine to for running tourists up some portable wall at a beach in Bermuda, or the kid party at the gym, but they’re worthless for training.
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

I'm not going to argue about it, I like using them and they fit my training needs and obviously the needs of others as well. I haven't found a route at the BRC that I can climb with the auto belay that I can't climb without it but it wouldn't matter anyway as I'm using them for running laps. Do you really want your belayer to stare at your ass for 30 minutes a set while you climb up and down without ever getting off the wall??

Bouldering is cool too, I like it. I think it's more fun when climbing hard, not doing laps, and use it as such.

BTW the BRC auto belays are not all on vertical/sub vertical walls and they're not the same as the old MSA ones though they look similar. Considering you've only used one once, I'm not sure how much weight you think your opinion has.

Evan1984 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 30
Ryan Kelly wrote: I suppose, if you’re that opposed to bouldering. I’ve only used an auto-belay once, and that’s because I was stuck at a gym in Kuala Lumpur during Ramadan and there was hardly a soul to be seen. Usually it’s not that hard to find a partner in a gym, and I’ll trust even most noobs when it comes to TR belaying. However, these auto-belays are usually on a vertical wall, and vertical face climbing is all about balance. You’re lying to yourself if you don’t think that a little tug up and in at the hip is an enormous crutch. These devices are fine to for running tourists up some portable wall at a beach in Bermuda, or the kid party at the gym, but they’re worthless for training.
Try bouldering as your only training. You'll get super powerful, but then hop on a hard rope route. I bet you start flaming out about where the top of the bouldering cave ends.

Well rounded training means bouldering for power and big moves as well as routes for balance and endurance. Loving both doesn't mean loving one less.

And, who gives a rat's about whether its cheating or not in terms of grades? Its for training. Start whining when they show up at Teva games.
Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989

The MSA design was overhauled by Perfect Descent, so there's quite a bit more redundancy o them now. I know that both Rock'n & Jam'n locations in Denver have them, in addition to the TruBlu devices. The Perfect Descent rebuild increased the maintenance requirements, so now the whole beast has to be checked on a weekly basis, and sent off to a licensed servicer (in this case, the BRC) on a regular (annual or semi-annual, I don't recall) basis.

The TruBlu units address a very fundamental flaw in the MSA/Perfect Descend design in that there are no parts designed to wear out, no parts that you have to catch via regular maintenance or else you'll have an accident. It functions via induced magnetic and electric fields to slow a person's descent. I still think they lower too fast, and the very slow take-up speed means that you have to stop from time to time to let it catch up.

Ryan Kelly · · work. · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 2,960
Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote: Try bouldering as your only training. You'll get super powerful, but then hop on a hard rope route. I bet you start flaming out about where the top of the bouldering cave ends. Well rounded training means bouldering for power and big moves as well as routes for balance and endurance. Loving both doesn't mean loving one less. And, who gives a rat's about whether its cheating or not in terms of grades? Its for training. Start whining when they show up at Teva games.
Easy there cupcake, don't create my stance for me. I never said anything about bouldering being the only training, I was addressing the weaknesses of the auto-belay as a training tool, as I see them. If you disagree that’s fine, state your counter-points, but your rebuttle is nothing but desultory assumptions. Grades? In a gym? The only thing I could a “rat’s ass” less about is the fucking Teva games.

I use the gym to train for rock. That’s it. So if something doesn’t benefit my climbing or it’s an inefficient use of my time then I don’t do it. If you enjoy going to the gym purely for gym sake, then that’s fine, run laps on moderate top-ropes till your heart’s content. I was simply discussing the merits and limitations of an auto-belay for training.

To that point: I don’t believe that running laps at a low enough level that I can climb for 30 minutes straight is going to do anything for me. I don’t sport climb on rock like that, and the gym doesn’t train you for trad. The one exception that I can think of would be slab, as you spend considerable time balancing precariously on nubbins. But, to my original point, that little tug at the waist compromises that training program. “Cheating”, to use the word you provided. Yes, but I’m not talking about grades (my first post in this thread was a joke, sorry you missed that), I’m talking about training. It may not be a big deal to someone pulling up jugs, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think it’s a big deal on thin, precision climbing.
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

If you've got a huge base of climbing years, maybe ARCing doesn't do anything for you. But I've been climbing for just under 2 years and ARCing 30 minute sets (2 or 3 per session) has made a huge difference in my outdoor climbing.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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