South Platte Ethics DEFINED

As a center of the Hayman Fire hot spot, and recently a controversial hot spot for ethics, tell me:

What routes in the South Platte best define its "local ethic/style"?

Flame on.

Local ethics can be variously ascribed to a few individuals or to a few groups of individuals. Invariably people will claim credibility based on duration of time one has climbed in a certain area. However, it is quite possible for a variety of opinion to spring up between individuals or between groups despite each group having equally valid 'credentials' for local-ness. Does it stand to reason that whoever has climbed somewhere longest has the most say as to how things should be done there? I should think this only somewhat captures the essence of an area. Perhaps a census should be taken of the various climbers in order to ascertain the true feelings of everyone recreating within a certain area. As this would most accurately describe how the majority of people feel about a certain issue, this seems to me to be the best way to establish a set of ethics for a climb/area. Many individuals will attempt to impart their 'ethics' onto the rest of the climbing public based soley on their own bias rather than on the merits of the 'ethics' in question.

To me South Platte ethics are simply respect for all of the previous folks who have set a fine example . Drill on the lead if you need a bolt , plug some gear as you can , and most importantly- SOME SPICE. I salute all of the old school .

Some people believe that creating danger in a route is commendable, while others will find it to be unnecessary and foolish. Because no one can claim to be in ownership of an area as vast as the South Platte, the style of route development will tend to fall to the individual depending on his state of mind at the time of First Ascent. Future parties will tend to regard the nature of a climb after it's First Ascent as permanent thus respecting the First Ascent party's state of mind at the time of the adventure.

Kevin McLaughlin wrote:To me South Platte ethics are simply respect for all of the previous folks who have set a fine example . Drill on the lead if you need a bolt , plug some gear as you can , and most importantly- SOME SPICE. I salute all of the old school .

Nuff said, end the thread.

+1, Kevin.

Frank, well put... but are describing a religion? Or dare I ask, cult?

C jones, thread not dead,
To be more clear, what specific routes best define the ethic of the south platte climbing. An "example"

I thought 'fishing' was another popular activity in the platte...

The last nine words that Kevin wrote:
"SOME SPICE. I salute all of the old school."

Frank is a technical writer for the NPS. He also freelances for the BLM, state, city and county parks as well as the Dean of the School of Mines. And, rumor has it, for Obama.

Wiled, I'm sorry that JohnL tried to hijack your post.

johnL wrote:Frank, I'm not saying you're drunk but I write exactly like that when I'm drunk and trying to sound smart. Again, not accusing you of drunken posting (not that there is anything wrong with that) but it begs the question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

It is a COMMON mistake to assume that begging the question implies that the issue at hand causes one to ask a particular question. This is as JohnL uses the term. However, the definition of 'begging the question' is of an argument that attempts to prove the premise, by using the implications within said premise, as part of the proposition. It is a form of circular logic.

This is aside from the point of the argument, which is what constitutes a valid 'ethic' for a given area.

Ok... how old is old school? I am asking objective questions and getting subjective answers. John, think harder, is it morning there? I know you have a long resume of routes you have climbed that seem to accurately exemplify local ethic and style.

Not asking how they should be, but how they are. By way of example.

EDIT: Ok I will start, Standard Route on Sunshine? Connections on the Dome? Shock Treatment on Big Rock Candy?.......

WiledHorse wrote:To be more clear, what specific routes best define the ethic of the south platte climbing. An "example"

Where the natural line defines the climbing, not the next clip, the next clip is just a navigational guide.

Bishop Jaggers & the first few pitches of Topo Oceans; then the bolt gun went crazy on P4.

Umph! wrote:Frank is a technical writer for the NPS. He also freelances for the BLM, state, city and county parks as well as the Dean of the School of Mines. And, rumor has it, for Obama.

that is quite impressive ~ Umph!

the writing that is

I dont get the "local ethic" part. Isnt the overall ethic to respect the style and manner of the FA?

Kevin McLaughlin wrote:To me South Platte ethics are simply respect for all of the previous folks who have set a fine example .

Not ALL of the folks, right? I mean, if we respected ALL of the folks who created a route however they saw fit, then there would have never been a reason to chop a route.

Most of the climbing I do is in the Platte but I don't do too many bolted routes. Some that I have done are Elusive Wapiti, Wear Cattle (major 5.9 sandbag), Dos Equis, Topographical Oceans (first 3 pitches are typical Platte slab climbing), and So Wild ( no bolts but it would have them if it was it CCC). A few that are on my list are Flakes of Wrath, Halogen Angels, and several down at Thunder Ridge. These routes are bolted well enough to keep you from taking a ground fall and spicy enough to make you pay attention.

So is there a group of people who want to start rap bolting the crap out the Platte?

You also have to know the secret handshake

Good ones. Keep em comin.
And chris, they don't have to be limited to bolted routes.

I think Childhood's End is a good example. It follows natural features and uses natural gear when possible, it uses bolts when not possible, has bolted anchors, and when it gets hard, there are more bolts...this seems typical of many Platte climbs I have seen.

I like it as an example because it contradicts many of the supposed "rules" of Platte ethics, yet it's one of the most popular routes. If "ethics" are what we, as a community agree should be the standard for a properly established route, and the vast majority of people are choosing this route to climb, it says something about what the "ethics" really are.

It's also a route that likely wouldn't exist if it had been established by non-locals, which is instructive.

Christopher Jones wrote:So is there a group of people who want to start rap bolting the crap out the Platte?

I think this guys' writing a book (again?)

yep -you map 'em and THEY will come. Dammit there should be some secret handshakes somewhere... to get something than noone else can have ha..!

daren, where are you now -and- did you sprout a WiFi in that new mobile-moon-unit..?

..................................

Elusive Wapiti

Original Sin -- for those that don't even like the bolt hangers

Classic, Buck Fever, & Center Route

Any route that belays off a pinkie, an alien(yer gonna die!!), and a big fat ass hex