V6 and harder at age 40 and beyond

Here's the deal. I turn 40 this year, but I'm climbing harder now than ever. I've been climbing on and off for almost 22 years now (with some long breaks) and while I had more endurance in my 20s, I have more power now.

My goal is to break out of V4/V5 bouldering and send harder stuff. In particular, I'm interested in advice about frequency of workouts per week, types of workouts (I belong to a gym and have a woody at home), and overall advice on how to take it to the next level.

What has your research uncovered so far?

At the decrepit age of almost 26, I don't know if I'm qualified to answer, but I have noticed that injuries/aches/pains are already more of a serious issue than when I was 20. My goal is to climb for life, but, for me, a bum shoulder, foot problems, and finger pain will be the limiting factors.

My plan is to protect my joints the best I can with stabilizng excercises to reduce the risk of injury, thoughtful(read well paced) finger training, and complimentary excecises such as swimming.

Assuming you are willing to work, your ability to improve will be limited by your body's ability to cope with the added stress. Most folks break down as they age. There are a number of training methods for getting stronger that apply to any age, but you should focus on strategies for reducing wear and tear and preventing injury. Any past injuries should indicate where you have the potential to get hurt again. Gradually increasing the workload should give you a warning of any problems before something catastrophic happens.

I have personally had great results with icing. I've had past issues with finger and elbow injuries, so after every hard workout or climbing day, I submerge my forearms in ice water for 10 minutes. This has helped a lot. Stretching and massage has also been helpful. Many folks have trouble with knees and shoulders and there are strategies for dealing with those joints.

You will also need to be a "better" climber, not a "stronger" climber than your younger colleagues. It's quite possible to climb some V6's with only V3 strength and great technique. That should be a goal of yours.

Ok, personally I'm seriously interested also. I see people like Bill Ramsey, but is he a genetic mutation as not to get a dibilitating climbing injury.

So, how long do you think someone can progress at getting stronger/better. Personally I am rapidly approaching 45 (like in a little over a month) and have been fortunate to still progressing after 35years. I've also been lucky to have only had one injury. So when does that peak occur? Just curious since I've talked with several people about this lately.

Personally, my philosophy is to take it one day at a time and see what is around the next corner

Read Peter Beal's article on training past 40 on 8a. Steve McClure also recently posted an article on training there as well. Steve is climbing stronger than ever, I believe he climbed a .14+ last year at the ripe old age of 50.

It is totally possible to continue to progress at climbing as you get older, you just have to be smarter than the average ape. I have found for myself (at 37)that I have to climb/train less often than I did in my 20's. Three times a week is the limit, but I can maintain fitness and climb hard routes with a twice a week routine. The key for me is to warm up slowly and really pay attention to the warning signs from my elbows. I have learned (the hard way) that not sending today is better than being injured tomorrow.

I think the best advice comes from Mr. Anderson, you need to take care of yourself and climb smart. I think his training program here is the best on the web. To that I would add that by now you should know what works for your body and what doesn't. There is no silver bullet. Climb Smart

Kevin Stricker wrote:Steve McClure also recently posted an article on training there as well. Steve is climbing stronger than ever, I believe he climbed a .14+ last year at the ripe old age of 50.

You mean Steve Haston? McClure isn't that old is he?

haston is over 50, and mcclure is probably well into his 40's. both of them pretty much eat nails and shit chains. super tough guys.

Thanks for the advice so far! The avoiding injury part is especially apt. Two months ago, after a good year of training, I went to the Buttermilks and, of course, on my first day, first hard climb, tweaked my A1 tendon badly. Now I truly understand why a proper warmump is essential.

My training so far consists of 4 days a week of exercise. Two of those are climbing days -- usually one session on my woody per week and one gym session, mainly bouldering. I also do a pretty intense total body weight workout on the third day, as well as a decent trail run on day 4. Sometimes, I do two days of weights and one day of climbing, if I'm traveling for example. Overally, I space those days out depending on how I feel, but I usually climb at least every 3rd, if not 4th day. That being said, the total body weights workouts take their toll.

When I go to the gym to boulder, I tend to spin my wheels a bit. I'm not patient enough to follow a highly specific routine -- where I have to count moves, reps, seconds, etc. -- and am often tempted to try whatever looks good, without giving enough thought to scientific training. Essentially, what I really want is staple gym bouldering routine that, in the long run, will make me progress up the grades. I have such a routine in the regular gym for overall fitness and it's simple and efficient (basically, I target big muscles with complex exercises with not much rest -- crossfit).

I need it badly for the climbing gym...!

Maybe it was Haston....Both are bad asses though.

Based on your current schedule I bet that replacing your weights day with another day of climbing will take you to the next level.

Honestly, full body workouts are mostly fluff when it comes to climbing hard. Spend 15 minutes working antagonists and rotator cuffs with each workout and call it good.

i may not be quite old enough or badass enough to supply personal experience to this thread, but Patryk, your gym bouldering routine is probably not the most efficient path to progress. I agree with others that targeting your weaknesses is paramount- which is exactly what you're not doing if you're just hanging out and working on problems that look good to you. Also remember that if you're trying to increase maximum forearm strength (via bouldering workouts, hangboard, whatever) and you're getting pumped out, you're not really increasing your max strength.

Berl brings up a good point, how often do you go to the gym and jump on problems you know you are going to suck at? It is possible to make your sessions more productive, but it takes a lot of discipline. 4x4's are one good example of a way to train while at the gym.

I wanted to add something to the conversation, hopefully to spark some opinions(not to monopolize your thread). I personally think that routine is the thing that holds back many climbers from continuing to progress in the sport. We tend to do the same things(usually what we are good at) and our body just stops adapting over time. The longer we climb(and the more we think we know) the less we are able to break out of ingrained poor technique,tactics, and even training programs.

Our body is a reactive organism, and progressive overload on its own is not enough to create the stimulus needed to break through plateaus over time. Show me a single Olympic athlete that has done the same workout(or even yearly periodization) for more than a few years who continues to improve in their sport. I would love to be proven wrong on this point.

I am sure some climbers could say they have, but to me that just shows how little training programs actually determine total climbing performance. If peak climbing fitness was the main determiner in climbing performance why are older climbers constantly able to improve on their previous bests even though they are clearly past their physical prime?

Some of the best climbers in the world do nothing more than boulder and climb. It is easy to say they are genetic anomalies, but maybe the truth is that by always changing their training stimulus they are able to have much greater adaptation than the rest of us.

I wanted to add to my previous post that I don't think Crossfit is fluff, it actually is a great way to avoid the above issues in general fitness. I just do not believe it is specific enough improve climbing performance significantly. If you really want to take your climbing to the next level try to adapt the concepts of Crossfit to your climbing and training days. The challenge of course is to avoid injury while doing so.

A much saner approach would be a structured climbing training program that has workouts specific for Power, Power Endurance, and Endurance. Just make sure you are always tweaking it. As soon as your program becomes a routine that is probably when you want to change it. Or at least that is my opinion, I would love to hear others.

Kevin, I agree in principle with the concept of constantly exposing your body to different types of stress, however, I think climbing does this inherently. Most climbers do not work the same routes year after year, so every time you try a new route or boulder problem, you are introducing new stress. This is in stark contrast to most olympic type sports. A 400m runner always does the exact same motions for nearly the same period of time, at the same pace every time she races. Climbers, on the other hand, almost always "compete" against different routes, each offering different stress for the body. So given that your "performance" days will almost always consist of a very random and unrepeatable sequence of exercises, should our training days also be random and unrepeatable?

I don't know the answer to that. I feel like the monotony of my training regimen adds some much needed order to what is otherwise a very chaotic activity. That said, I have certainly faced long plateaus, and would love to discover a silver bullet to break through them.

I think one of the reasons people plateau when doing the same exercise regime for years is that they don't try as hard as they did when they first started. For example, they get comfortable benching a certain weight, and they just go through the motions rather than really pushing themselves. On the other hand, when you try a new type of exercie your technique is poor, so maybe you don't move efficiently, and you're not sure how much load to use, so there is a good chance that you will exert more effort serrendipitously, so you will show gains until your body learns how to get through the exercises efficiently.

Mike Anderson wrote: Climbers, on the other hand, almost always "compete" against different routes, each offering different stress for the body. So given that your "performance" days will almost always consist of a very random and unrepeatable sequence of exercises, should our training days also be random and unrepeatable? I don't know the answer to that. I feel like the monotony of my training regimen adds some much needed order to what is otherwise a very chaotic activity. That said, I have certainly faced long plateaus, and would love to discover a silver bullet to break through them.

Excellent point that I had not considered. I did/do agree with your philosophy that climbing by itself is not a quantifiable and consistent training program. Thanks for the input.

JLP, which Horst book are you referring to? Conditioning for Climbers or the other one?

i have had the best training results by mixing "system training" & Endurance training together but on separate days. Below is the quote from one of my past posts on the subject.

I started doing a variation of the HIT System a few years back...I attribute a majority of my recent sends to HIT Training.

I'm wondering if anyone else uses this training techniques and what your system entails.

For mine I only really use the actual HIT Strips for Warm-up before the training, I still use the pinches as part of my workout. otherwise I acquired sets of identical pockets (1-pad), crimps (1/2 pad), slopers, and underclings...my home wall is set at 45 degrees and is 10' tall x 6' wide

Here's an example of my workout (it usually takes about 2 hours to complete...but leaves me feeling more worked than a 5 or 6 hour session in the gym...I will allow for 3 minutes rest between exercises):

- Pinch Controlled (with weight)
- Pinch Campus (without weight)
- (R & M) Pockets - Lead Right (with weight)
- (R & M) Pockets - Lead Left (with weight)
- Campus (without weight)
- (M & I) Pockets - Lead Right (with weight)
- (M & I) Pockets - Lead Left (with weight)
- Campus (without weight)
- Open Crimp - Lead Right (with weight)
- Open Crimp - Lead Left (with weight)
- Campus (without weight)
- Sloper - Lead Right (with weight)
- Sloper - Lead Left (with weight)
- Campus (without weight)
- Undercling (with weight)
- Ab Rolls - 4 x 25 Per Arm
- Pull Ups/Push Ups/Crunches/Dips - 5 x 15

For endurance I simply run laps in the gym...I try to fail at about 100' (that's the length of most routes I'm working)

Hope this helps...

Mike and Kevin,

I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about training for longer routes. For me, I'd like to get a bunch of .13's, and a bunch of .12's at the Creek and do Moonlight free. Funny thing is I do everything wrong (warm up on .12 finger/tips routes) but never get injuried, ok I've had one in 35+ yrs when I fell with my finger in a mono (and it stayed, sort of).

I really dislike campus boards, as one of the guys I've climbed with in the past (a pretty decent boulderer, since he did V11/V12's) is that if you want a long climbing career its best to stay off of them.I figure as a 45 yr old it probably holds doubly true. I also follow some of the B. Ramsey tradition, in that after a day climbing I do weights, especially rotator cuff stuff and weighted pullups (sets with 50lbs and 100lbs).

Good nutrition AND hydration are a major part of any serious athletic effort. Not just on the climbing weekends, but everyday. You need to know how to recover as fast as possible. You Will feel a ton better if you put a little time in discovering what fuels you best.
As I see it, eating well is the most important factor in retaining any "youth" I might still have. Just turned 40 last sept.

chuck claude wrote:Mike and Kevin, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about training for longer routes.

How 'bout we start a new thread?

Yes, it can be done by mere mortals! The key is to find a training regime that works specifically for you....not some 18 year old mutant living rent free. At 50, I find that 2 bouldering sessions a week and minimal antagonistic training,(pushups and dips) and lots of rest (recovery)is the ticket. No injuries in over 10 years and just sent a 3 year project. Also, take up surfing(year round)as it is great cross-training.

Patryk,
So how are you progressing?

Luke, Will, and many others who have contributed -- thanks!

After trying various things and taking pretty good notes of what worked and what didn't, here are my brief findings/reflections so far:

1. You CAN get a lot stronger in the regular (non-climbing) gym for bouldering -- for me, weighted pull ups have been the key. I've been doing about 3 sets of pull ups on rotating rings with about 25-45 pounds on a belt. These delivered big results for bouldering power.

2. Core exercises in the regular gym also helped a lot. Especially for weird body-tension stuff (which happens to be quite frequent on V5 and beyond).

3. One of the key things in developing your training routine is how many times per week is too many. For me, at age 40, two climbing related days/sessions per week is just barely enough to make some progress or at least maintain. But three weekly sessions is often too much, especially if the session was hard.

4. A lot can affect power on a daily basis, so don't be discouraged by off days when you go to the gym or outside and feel like you're 25% weaker than a few days earlier. Coffee, sleep, stress, all affect power in a big way.

5. I still don't warm up properly before a session, and always regret not doing so.

6. Technique is KING outside. In the gym, not so much...

Thanks for the info, everyone, and stay tuned for more results!

Patryk