How warm a bag and/or clothing combo do you need for comfortable winter camping in Colorado's mountains?

The post sums up the question--how warm should the bag be for Colorado winters? And do you have any recommended brands/models with roomy shoulders and hips for guys who ache sleeping on the ground?

On the "-20 to -40" thread, someone disparaged Thermarest type pads as unreliable. What's your experience?

35 deg.

Shawn-

I'm still waiting for you to solve the Psycho Killer mystery.

I've got a 15 year old thermarest that still holds air just fine, and I've heard the newest ones are pretty durable. If you're gonna be off in the BC for days at a time though, risking a puncture and subsequent sleep dep is unadvisable. If I'm gonna be out for more that a day or two I bring a foam pad. I've got a Mountain Hardware that turns into a chair, it's alright, kinda thin but it works and is pretty tough.

A 0 degree bag and a down jacket are fine for frigid negative temps around here. If it's really gonna be -30, or colder, just stay home.

You can also buy patch kits for thermarests. A patch would weigh next to nothing and take up hardly any space on a multi-day trip.

Just get one of these. It'll be perfect!

Evan Simons wrote:A 0 degree bag and a down jacket are fine for frigid negative temps around here. If it's really gonna be -30, or colder, just stay home.

So far this has been my experience, too. As for pads, I have two Exped mats, a Downmat 7 and a Synmat 7 DLX (his and hers). They are really super and I've never slept as well on a Thermarest as I do on those.

Mark Roth wrote:Just get one of these. It'll be perfect!

Bear insulating properties aren't as good as Tauntan R-value.

" Comfortable Winter Camping"
hahahahahaha

- 20 I'd want at least. Are you camping in back of your truck, a tent or an igloo/snow cave? My worst is the feet getting cold at the far end of the bag. I'm now tossing in those chemical hand warmers to the foot end, or at least have one handy if needed mid sleep when I feel a cold spot somewhere.

I like sleeping bag systems. You can customize your system, but a maxed out system could be: Outer shell is a bivy sack (even inside a tent or snow cave); Odegree or better down bag; Inner bag is a fleece zippered liner; lastly a VBL (vapor barrier liner).

I made a VBL out of a heavy duty space blanket by sewing it into a bag with a draw string. This added an extra component of radiant heat reflection.

With a VBL, just wear wicking long underwear. No matter what, wear a hat while sleeping. VBLs are probably a little controversial and not everyone will like it. The advantages are that by blocking vapor, you keep the down insulation dry, and prevent heat loss through evaporation. The disadvantages are that in the morning, getting out of the bag and getting dressed can be brutal, because even with the wicking underwear, you can be soaked. Also, you have to turn the VBL inside out, let the moisture freeze and shake it out.

I really like VBLs. They are very comfortable and worth the hassle in the morning.

I've spent a number of very cold (-20 to -10 degree) nights in a bivy (BD Lightsabre), 20 degree down bag (mtn hdwr), thinsulate lined pants (mtn hdwr compressor), expedition weight wool socks, fleece tights, fleece baselayer top, and 800 fill down jacket, and hat. It's been a 'comfortable' enough system for those temps. I do sleep extremely warm, though. So, that's a big factor.

I hope your boots and flashlight work.

For Colorado winter camping I only use a 10 deg bag this works well combined w a good closed cell foam pad if you need shoulder room Western Mountaineering makes non mummy style bags that are worth every penny.

Go with a non dryloft cover and only use a light weight bivi sack if your sleeping in a snow cave and only if things turn damp however a properly constructed interior will keep you dry. In 27 years of snow camping I have never had a problem with wetting out a good quality down bag to the point of it being useless .It does sometimes have a little dampness but it's mostly frost .Now if your sleeping in a tent or bivy sac that does not breath very very well than all bets are off.

I have been on Denali twice Shasta and Rainer several times as well as other cold high places and have never used nor felt like I needed a VBL .I like to be able to dri out damp clothes overnight in the bag and nomatter what anybody tells you you will never do it while wearing a VBL plus waking up on a freezing cold morning in soaking
wet light weight underwear is not my idea of fun.

I have three thermarest pads two of which are quite old but they all hold air and while I only use them on moderate trips I always take a closed cell foam pad not only as insurance from popping but also because a thermarest will suck the heat right out of your body and into the ground .As for the one I have that has some down in it so far same story. If I know I'm doing serious alpine than it's two closed cell foam pads and the rubber dollies stay home.If you do take a thermarest than a repair kit is a must.

Boil your water for the next day right before you go to bed than sleep with your water bottles and a few shake n warms are always nice to have along

Just so you'll know Im pretty cold blooded ESP my feet and my 10deg bag has kept me warm and comfy for all but the coldest trips but for them I have a -25 deg bag.

go big shawn. its a helluva lot better sleeping warm than cold in the winter. the nights are just so freaking long. i used to use 2 pads - a ridge rest foam pad and a thermarest on top. to me, there is almost no situation as crappy and desperate as looking at your watch all night, through 12 hours of darkness.

Thermarest will kill you in the winter. They have no real insulative value. Don't listen to the marketing hype.

Get a closed cell foam pad like the Ridgerest (good) or the Z-Rest (better). Cheap, indestructible, warm, super lightweight.

My sleeping system for CO winters is a 10 degree bag, silk liner, thermals, and a huge puffy jacket. The key is not wearing the puffy inside the bag because that kills loft. Instead, drape it over the bag, or wear it, zip your bag up to your pits,wear some mitts, and be comfortable.

As far as pads go, for car camping I use crash pads. they're super warm and the extra thickness made me the only smiling one in Indian Creek last year when 5 gallon jugs were freezing solid. For a packable pad, I like a thermarest for comfort, but just have a foam one now because they are warmer. Thermarests get filled with moisture from the air (even if you don't blow them up) and eventually get cold.

A 4 season tent that is sturdy, breathes well, and can close up wents is probably more important than the bag.

Evan

"I always take a closed cell foam pad not only as insurance from popping but also because a thermarest will suck the heat right out of your body and into the ground"

"Thermarest will kill you in the winter. They have no real insulative value. Don't listen to the marketing hype."

So then I suppose Steve House is a marketing-whore dumbass for climbing the rupal face with just a thermarest?

Sorry to be so condescending. I have yet to ditch my closed-cell foam pad for an inflatable. Just sayin'.

Jon H wrote:Thermarest will kill you in the winter. They have no real insulative value. Don't listen to the marketing hype.

It must be the marketing hype that kept me from dying on all of those winter camping trips...

I've got a +20° bag and have slept comfortably down to -10°F, on a Therm-a-Rest BaseCamp (large 'cause I'm tall and needed the extra length), in my lightweight 4-season tent. I sleep sans clothes, extra clothes can make you sweat, if that happens you will get cold.