Mountaineering School recommendations...

Hi just to give you guys my background, I'm 20 and live in Boulder, CO. I am a competent backcountry skier/ traveller and can lead sport up to 5.11. I have zero experience mountaineering or ice climbing and very little in leading trad, normally something like 5.6/5.7. Also, I do have a WFR.

Although I do not have much experience I know that I want to completely commit myself to these sports but realize that I need training. I am looking into some schools to set me in the right direction. I have looked at Alaska Mountaineering School (AMS), Total Climbing, and the Waddington Range trip through NOLS. I am wondering what your recommendation is for the school with the most value and and the one that will teach me the most. My goal is to learn as much as possible and gain experience. I know this is a tough question, thank you for answering.

Cheers,

BD

extremelypatagonia.com/moun…

I took an interest in this school, dont know if i'll ever do it. If you want to go all out; 2 years of mountaineering and guiding in the Patagonia wilderness.

Myabe - just hiring a guide several times will teach you what you need, and probably still be cheaper.

While hiring a guide on your own will allow you to 'customize' your itinerary, it can get expensive. Personally, I went with American Alpine Institute out of Bellingham (about 17 years ago) and found them to be very professional and technically knowledgable. I agree that going with NOLS can be a crap shoot.

Check out CMS in Estes Park:

totalclimbing.com/page.php?…

yamnuska.com/

Blows NOLS away....

Or if you have unlimited expenses and can swallow about $200 a day...

Hire a guide....

climbinglife.com/

Having worked for the Colorado Mountain School (Total Climbing now)for several years in the past I'm a little biased but would recommend them highly for learning to lead trad and ice climbing.

I'll also throw out a shameless plug for my buddy Keith Garvey who runs All Mountain Adventures out of Boulder. Keith is a fully certified guide (UIAGM) who is incredibly knowledgable and super fun. allmountainadventures.com/H…

As far as mountaineering I think it depends on what you want to do. Glacier travel/crevasse rescue stuff is best done on a glacier if you can swing it which won't be in Colorado. AAI, RMI, AMS are good bets. If you want to do alpine rock/mixed stuff Rocky Mountain N.P. (with CMS) is a great place to learn and close for you as well. Your backcountry avy skills and WFR will serve you well. Another important consideration is guide ratios. As someone mentioned above, the more folks in a class the less individual attention you'll receive and the class can only go as fast as the slowest member (ie. NOLS/OB and even CMS to a certain extent). It might be worth paying more for a private lesson or go with a buddy. That way you can learn exactly what you want and it's usually a lot more fun for the guide as well! Overall, hiring a guide is a great idea and even though it can be expensive you'll learn a variety of skills, learn to solve problems quickly and efficiently, and vastly accelerate your learning curve. Good luck and have fun!

djn wrote:...I'll also throw out a shameless plug for my buddy Keith Garvey who runs All Mountain Adventures out of Boulder. Keith is a fully certified guide (UIAGM) who is incredibly knowledgable and super fun. allmountainadventures.com/H… ...

+1

A number of years ago I took the Alpine Mountaineering and Technical Leadership Course (Part 1) from AAI. In fact, on the picture that the first link opens you to, I am the second person from the front.

This is the American Alpine Institute in Bellingham, WA. Not to be confused with AAI, Alpine Ascents International, in Seattle.

I can't say enough good things about the course and the instructors. They also offer a number of classes in ice climbing and other disciplines, as you'll see from perusing their website.

The class did not teach me to be a competent leader of a climb. But what it did do was give me the skill base to be a somewhat competent follower, and thus to begin to build experiences and additional skills upon that base. This process allowed me to expand my forays into the mountains, and to eventually become an equal partner in climbs.

I know there are a lot of places closer to you, but thought I would plug AAI anyway.

Best of luck!
Steve

Go to AMGA.com and put your time and energy in actual certifications. Great road map. You could also check out the classes given by the guides working in Yosemite.

Check out the Colorado Mountain Club (CMC). It's a state-wide, non-profit, primarily volunteer organization. Since you live in Boulder, the Boulder Group may be the most convenient local chapter. See cmcboulder.org. By coincidence, tomorrow night (Wed, 11/4) is the "Winter Schools Sign-up Night". See cmcboulder.org/bms/winterSc…. There's an ice climbing clinic in January if you're interested in that. The Boulder Group also has an excellent trad leading clinic (see cmcboulder.org/bms/rls.html) that's held in June. Note that if you're a CMC member, you may also get a corporate rate at both the Movement Climbing + Fitness gym and the Boulder Rock Club. The CMC is also a good place to meet others with similar outdoor interests. Hope that helps.

CMC is a great way to go. You can't beat the cost.

At some point as you get more experience, I would also recommend an AMGA course over commercial operations. Most people taking the AMGA courses have extensive experience and you eliminate the risk of being in a course with novices.

I know that I will take a bath on this statement, but I think it needs to be said. (full disclosure: I have never been guided on anything, so I have little to offer as far actually picking a guide.)

If you chose a guide, be extremely careful who you choose. Hands down, the dumbest, most unsafe stuff I have seen done in the mountains was perpetrated by guides with clients. Just because your guide does it, doesn't mean its safe or the best way to do something. Taking a course or going out with a guide is no substitute for your own judgment. There is often no substitute for experience and hours spent in the mountains. I think the best thing to do, albeit difficult, is to find a partner with a bit more experience than you and head for the hills and log hours and experience.

Have fun. Be safe.

edit: If you can't find an experienced partner, maybe the best thing to do is to talk to people you trust and get their recommendations for a guide. If you know someone that you is know is safe and has good judgment, than perhaps they can recommend a good guide. Probably better than a course.

NOLS SUCKS for your needs and I highly discourage it with your current skill sets, its not the right environment for you, they teach people how to suffer for the most part and if you want to save some money, hire a guide or go to a school as suggested by most here.

Lets see nols course for a semester or whatever is like 6 or 7k, verses Guided instructional days, yeah you can get that for about 200 a day or so and have way more focus and attention on the learning objectives.

IM me if you want, Keith Garvey is a great suggestion too, AMA guides, you can find me there too, but if you want to talk prices IM me. I can work with your budget

I suggest you ask yourself what is your ultimate goal. Colorado has a lot of great rock, ice, and good snow and mixed climbs. Our mountains are a fantastic place to play but if you want to climb glaciated peaks then CO is not the best place to get that experience, if you want to learn to survive avalanche conditions you've got the right place. Like a couple of other posters I took a course with American Alpine Institute out of Bellingham years ago, they're a fantastic outfit and I would recommend them to anybody interested in learning in the Cascades. They have courses in plenty of other areas as well but I have no experience on what their out of state guides are like. Had a really bad encounter with RMI on the Kautz earlier this year (we were climbing on our own, no guides) and based on what I saw I would stay the hell away from them. Every range is a little different and until you gain experience you would do well to pick good guiding services to help ease the learning curve. If you're interested in staying in CO, use CMS or somebody like Eli Helmuth (took an avi course with him years ago, good guy and good instructor), if you're interested in smaller glaciated peaks like the Cascades, AAI is terrific. I'm sure others on MP will give you some good suggestions for guide/instruction in other ranges.

Good luck, be safe, and have a blast.

I would reccomend The International Wilderness Leadership School. They employ some of the most competant guides around and are less expensive. Because this company aims to train guides instead of simply people who want to learn simple skills you will learn a lot more. check out alaskamountainguides.com they have a link to IWLS.

From what it sounds like your goals are, you would like to gain experience and know-how to safely travel and climb in the mountains. I would recommend seeking someone certified through the American Mountain Guides Association (AMGA) whether private or through a guide service. That way you know that the person teaching you has passed certification exams and is training you at a high standard. It may seem pricey but you will be getting a wealth of knowledge and professional training. Im sure it will ultimately be worth it as opposed to the other options. This way you can cater the course to your own personal needs. I would strongly recommend an AMGA certified guide!

I second the AAI Leadership program. I took all 3 parts a few years ago. Excellent experience. Top notch guides/instructors.