Slings/quickdraws/alpine draws/etc - What's your system?

Was looking at the gear racking threads but most people were talking about what pro they bring and where they put it. I'm interested in what your sling/quickdraw system is.

Since I began climbing I've done the kind of old school method of 10-12 tripled up single length runners (the number I bring depends on how long the pitches will be/if I'm linking, etc). Each cam is on it's own biner and I just clip the alpine draw to the cam and leave the racking biner. The thing I like about this system is that I have three options for clipping each piece. I can clip directly to the cam, to a short draw or an extended draw.

Now I'm kind of interested in getting some weight and bulk off of my harness. I saw a guy in Yosemite a couple of weeks ago who had maybe 6 short quickdraws/sport draws and then a handful of single length runners over his shoulder, each with a single biner. That seems like a pretty cool way of having less stuff on the harness so I might try that.

Any other ideas? Do you use your sport draws when trad climbing? Or do you have a separate set?

I also want to have one set of draws for both sport climbing and trad climbing to simplify my life, so was thinking about having a dozen of something like this: blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Thanks!

Dont bother having a seperate set of sport or trad draws. I have 10 or 12 quickdraws of varying lengths and half a dozen slings to extend when needed for rope drag. I also have up to three cams racked on Nutrinos. A biner for each cam is overkill ecspecially if your humping you stuff in for miles.

I am a relative noob leader so I am just offering my current system as an option, not THE way. :-) I have tried slings/draw of many lengths and I have tried racking them with two biners each but this is the method I have settled upon for the moment:

For most climbs, I rack twelve half-length (12 inch) slings on a single biner, and eight double-length slings on a single biner.

These two sling lengths seem to cover primary uses for slings that I am aware of; limiting movement of gear by the rope and/or reducing rope drag. Sport draws could be useful in a situation where the clipping is desperate and every second counts. I just don't climb that hard yet.

I rack the double-length slings by doubling them on the biner with a single twist and then twisting four times before doubling them again.

I have found that the following process works well when adding a sling to gear; un-clip sling from rack, grasp a single strand of the sling with the two smallest fingers on that hand, let go of the biner and clip the single strand of the sling into the biner of the placed gear. If the sling is half-length, I clip the hanging biner to the rope. If the sling is double-length, I un-clip the hanging biner from the tangle of sling and re-clip it to one of the sling strands directly below the gear biner. A quick pull on the biner will straighten the double-length sling and then I clip it to the rope. Although this description is a bit long, I can add a sling to gear and clip it to the rope in just a few seconds using just one hand. Takes a bit a practice.

I rack all of my cams and tri-cams with a biner, and rack ten free biners for nuts and occasional use in anchors.

I use skinny dyneema or spectra slings. By using the skinny slings and a single biner per sling, my rack weight and bulk is much reduced.

You did not ask, but I use Wild Country Helium wiregate biners. They are expensive but light and the no-hook nose makes clipping much smoother.

Again, this is just for what it is worth. YMMV hugely.

Dave

Justin Peacock wrote:I saw a guy in Yosemite a couple of weeks ago who had maybe 6 short quickdraws/sport draws and then a handful of single length runners over his shoulder, each with a single biner. That seems like a pretty cool way of having less stuff on the harness so I might try that. Any other ideas? Do you use your sport draws when trad climbing? Or do you have a separate set?

For me, really depends on the route, and, where said route is located.

I use my sport draws for trad climbing on "front country" type routes. For backcountry routes, I rack my Oz quickdraws (maybe 6 or 7) and then skinny slings like your Yos guy above. Also rack each cam on its own biner. On long trad pitches, I just don't want to futz gettin' gear off my rack and placed. On a long pitch, I tend to use a bunch of cams/nuts, and I'll want each to its own biner and extending if need be, or, having the option to not if need be.

I only usually carry draws on my harness, with maybe a few slings tripled in qd mode. I carry a gear sling which makes handoffs on multi pitch a little simpler (as well as chimneys, etc). Personal preference, really. I'll harness rack on long friction routes where I don't need much gear.

Sometimes, I'll rack my qd's on a gear sling too, on the other side of my person than the nuts/cams on the other gear sling, especially if I'm carrying a bunch for a route that wanders, or, I'm ice climbing and I have a full compliment of screamer draws.

Its interesting to observe other folks and see their system, and, climb with a variety of partners who do it different too. After a bunch of pitches and time, you'll figure out what sorta works for you, but, you might tweak it over time too, especially from area to area (rock type, etc).

Cheers!

I've been switching my draw racking methods up this year, too.

• I have been carrying about 6 over the shoulder skinny slings with one carabiner each over my shoulder.
• I have 6-8 12" skinny quickdraws on my harness.
• Each cam gets a carabiner, nuts go on 2 carabiners.

I like this method, except when I need to long-sling a nut for the first placement. I have to sacrifice a locker or racking carabiner from a cam to make the extended placement, and a few times I've just clipped both a draw and a long sling if I want to move fast. As I place cams, I'll clip a few of the racking carabiners on my gear loop for this use later on the pitch, but sometimes these get jumbled up at the belay while re-racking.

I have a separate trad draw rack and sport draw rack. I need the fatty draws to grab when I'm sending my sport proj, and the lightweight skinny draws for trad or alpine because I'm lazy and don't want to carry the fatty ones.

-Cams: Each one gets its own biner. I do this because I'm often climbing trad routes at my limit...no time to futz with gear like that. It also reduces the chances of dropping multiple pieces when unclipping them from your harness.

-Nuts: Two keylock gate biners (they make huge difference, especially for nuts) dividing them into small and large sizes.

-Draws: Depends on the route. I'll often use quickdraws on a trad route, if it is straight up or there are desperate gear placements. On anything else, I'll primarily use tripled 2' draws, on my harness. Sometimes I'll keep one or two extra over my shoulder with a biner or two on them if I have a specific placement I would like to extend.

I rack pretty much the same as David except I prefer a pin and notch biner for my nuts. I find the notch provides a safety against nuts dropping off my biner and I don't find the notch snagging to be an issue. Infact, the only time I I have a strong preference for keylocks in general is when I'm cleaning aid because the piece is weighted.

I like keylocks but I've already got a full array of pin and notched ones, so I go by the old "if i aint broke don't fix it" mentality.

cheers
Evan

I'm with Brian, in that my system varies somewhat with the route I'm doing. In general here's what I've been doing lately.

I rack on my harness, as do most of my climbing partners. I'll use a gear sling if I have to (OW/squeeze), but would rather not. I hate the way the gear bunches together, making it hard to stay organized. (I realize this isn't a gear sling thread, but bear with me.) When climbing overhanging rock the gear goes behind me, making it hard to select a piece, and putting more weight on my arms. When racked on the harness, it is easier to keep the weight of the rack on my feet by pulling my hips into the rock. So, on long trad pitches my harness is pretty full with the rack.

I tend to have one gear loop (L side) that has draws and tripled runners, and the rest get clipped to a sling over my R shoulder. The draws are light enough that I don't feel the weight when climbing overhangs. I can just reach back and grab the first one on the sling-- I don't need to find a particular one.

Each cam gets it's own biner. I clip straight in to cams a lot. Indian Creek got me started on this, and I've realized that it works fine on routes that aren't perfectly straight. If clipped direct to the cam, you're most likely to have problems with it moving while you climb past it. You get used to watching for this. Once past it, most cams dont walk that much in most placements.

On routes that wander a lot (primarily alpine) I won't triple up my runners. I'll just loop a bunch over my shoulder. On normal gear routes I don't find that I need to extend that many pieces with more than a quickdraw/tripled runner. Maybe 3-4 per pitch at most. So having most of them over my shoulder doesn't work well. It's harder to shorten a runner on the fly than it is to undo a tripled runner. That's why my default is having them tripled.

I tend to have about 6 draws that are about 6", a few that are longer (10-12"?), and 6-8 tripled runners. For multi-pitch I'll throw one "double-length" (4' loop) on the rack. But most single-pitch cragging routes don't seem to wander enough to need this.

Wow, that turned into a long post.

There is one reason to keep your "sport" draws separate; If you fall a lot, the top biner can get chewed up from hangers, and that wouldn't be ideal for clipping cam slings...

Harness racking, pro on one side, draws on the other. Front loop for pro carries nuts, small tricams and small cams, rear loop carries cams size 1 and larger. I rack 2-3 cams per biner, and just about a double set of nuts on 2-3 biners (ovals with a non keylock gate).

Number of draws depend on the length of the route/pitch. For general purpose, I use about 1/2 dozen regular dogbone type short draws on the forward gear loop, and 6-8 tripled single(24") runners on the rear loop. Also carry a cordellete with large power point biner, and a couple light lockers for anchors, and sometimes a double (48" runner over the shoulder. I don't carry the redundancy of a biner for each cam and very rarely clip a cam without a draw/runner on it unless the pitch is an arrow straight crack. I don't want cam placements to walk.

Occasionally, I'll rig a piece with a draw at a rest stance prior to moving into a crux move placement situation so I can plug and go with no fiddling or delay.

Mark Roth wrote:There is one reason to keep your "sport" draws separate; If you fall a lot, the top biner can get chewed up from hangers, and that wouldn't be ideal for clipping cam slings...

Yeah. I second that. Take careful note of the condition of the inside of the biners that contact softgoods.

I store my triple length slings by girth hitching my nipple rings.

My system pretty much never varies:

-- six tripled "trad draws," three on each side of my harness, back behind the pro.
-- six over-the-shoulder slings, each with a biner attached.
-- one double-length sling, clipped end-to-end with one biner. This one goes over the shoulder under the other six; when I need it, I just unclip the biner from one end and it's free. On rare occasions, I'll carry two like this.

So I've now got 13 runners to extend my pro. I've only ever once placed more pieces than that in a single pitch, so these are more than enough. I don't carry sport draws when I'm trad climbing.

JL

I hate dealing with double length slings, they always seem to be a cluster & always take me off balance to deploy/clean; but they are useful.

I'm thinking of switching to the new Spidey runners. they are disposable and they come right out of your wrist without any need for racking more weight.

I'm just breaking into trad so take my input within that context. And, I have a bit of OCD when it comes to the organization of my gear. I like to be able to grab and go without having to re-organize for different climbs. So, I have a harness and 'draws for sport outings and a separate harness and 'draws (plus rack) for trad outings.

As far as "trad quickdraws" go, I have 4 with 20 cm slings doubled up. I also carry 6 slings tied in monkey knots w/a single 'biner attached to each...4 30 cm slings and 2 60 cm slings for really bad rope drag. And, I do have 3 "sport 'draws".

I also rack each cam on its own 'biner. If I'm placing a cam, I clip the rope into either the 'biner on the cam or clip one of the monkey knot slings onto the cam's 'biner and clip the rope to the free 'biner depending on the potential for rope drag.

For passive protection, I use the "trad quickdraws" or, if rope drag is a non-issue, I use the sport 'draws.

Like I said, I am just getting into trad. I'm sure I'll adjust my system as I gain experience. But, so far, it's worked and I haven't found myself at the top of a pitch with too many extra 'draws or slings.

I'm trying out the 2 cam per biner system. I don't like it as much as one per, however I got a little sick of a cluttered harness. I'm sure I carry too much pro though. I'm not quite used to having put a cam back on my harness, but the rack size being cut by a 1/3 is pretty sweet.

On another point, I recently saw a picture of Micah Dash with a BD #5, where the cam sling was girth hitched to a long runner with a single biner.

Knowing that the knots reduce the strenth of the connection, is this strictly an alpine practice to reduce the rack? Maybe he ran low on gear or wanted to reduce to possiblity of losing essential gear.

Anyone have experience with this?

Primo Boudreaux wrote:Monkey knot???

Yes. Well, actually, a monkey chain knot: marinews.com/Monkey-Chain-7…

Crag Dweller wrote: Yes. Well, actually, a monkey chain knot: marinews.com/Monkey-Chain-7…

AKA daisy chain.

Thanks for the great responses. I've gotten some good ideas, but it's also cool to reaffirm what I've been doing.

Also, great comment on the bolt-end biner of trad draws. I'm going to check my biners before I use them on trad, and will probably keep a separate set for that reason. Damn. More crap in my car I was hoping to eliminate. Oh well.

Thanks!

Justin Peacock wrote:Thanks for the great responses. I've gotten some good ideas, but it's also cool to reaffirm what I've been doing. Also, great comment on the bolt-end biner of trad draws. I'm going to check my biners before I use them on trad, and will probably keep a separate set for that reason. Damn. More crap in my car I was hoping to eliminate. Oh well. Thanks!

I use a different 'biner on each end of my draws to make sure I don't use the bolt-end of my draws to clip the rope. On my sport draws, the rope-end is anodized and the bolt ends are not. With my trad draws, I use wire-gates for the rope end and solid gates to clip into pro.

I don't know why but oh how I hate having anything over my shoulders, even just slings. When climbing over in the US the guide books are usually very good at telling you what you might need in terms of pro. No such luck over here, so I tend to have a lot more stuff than I need with me. For that I have a harness with 6 useful gear loops and a hall loop.
I only carry the size 3 Camalot and above on it's own biner, all other cams I carry two on each except for my three offset aliens that go on one. I almost always clip a runner into the cams when placed because I don't want to be thinking about if the cam has wiggled or walked if I'm above it and the climbing is hard. The times I have been so desperate that I need to slam a cam in and clip directly have been so few that it does not merit clogging my gear loops up with a biner per cam. I've placed plenty of nuts as just described so I guess I'm kind of used to it. I've climbed a bunch of chimneys and corners and only once or twice felt that my gear was in the way, still manageable though. I put pro on the front loops, draws on the middle, belay & anchor stuff back and 'what if' stuff on the hall loop.
I never use the shortest runners on my quickdraws for trad. I'm not comfortable falling on trad gear, so when I do I want to be as sure as I can that the piece has not wiggled. As this not an issue for sport climbing, I have a seperate set of short draws for sport days.