What Counts as an On-Sight?

Do you have to send a climb with absolutely no beta and having seen no one climb it before in order to claim the on-sight?

Or, does it count if your climbing partner does the climb first but doesn't give any beta?

Here's my thinking...

With the prevalence of route descriptions, very few of us walk up to a climb with absolutely no beta. And, the most frequently climbed routes almost always have so much chalk on them that you have information from others who've climbed before even if you didn't see them climb.

When my partner is climbing, I pay enough attention to manage the belay safely but I'm not cataloging his/her movements. I get a good view of the start but, unless the crux is right off the ground, I'm thinking I'd have been able to read the beginning moves if I was able to do the entire climb cleanly. As for the upper sections of the climb, I get about as much info from the chalk as I do watching my partner.

When do you claim an on-sight? Do you count it only when you're the first person in your party to do the climb? Do you consider it an on-sight if you climb it cleanly the first time regardless of whether someone climbed it before you? Or, do you claim an OS only when you have no beta from any source other than the rock and chalk marks?

hahaha. got to love the word game. Really, it doesn't matter, to each his own.

But in my mind I only give myself credit for the onsite when I have not seen anyone climb the route ever. Otherwise I call it a flash. That is--when I am lucky enough to actually climb some route that I'm on.

A true onsight would probably be getting on a route accidentally.

Here's my thinking . . .

It doesn't matter. If you feel like you did the route with no previous info that affected your ascent, be psyched and call it an on-sight (a vue) if you like. That really is the most important factor, don't get caught up in the semantics and don't sweat the little things.

That being said the ascent you describe is definitely NOT an on-sight. its a Flash, there are many grades of flash that people like to make up, but since you saw your partenr climb it first you technically cannot claim on-sight (sinnce you "saw" someone climb it first, get it?)but like I said you are the only one who knows how much beta you got from that so I say don't sweat it and be psyched you got a good send in.

be safe . . . but not too safe!

w

Crag Dweller wrote:When do you claim an on-sight? Do you count it only when you're the first person in your party to do the climb? Do you consider it an on-sight if you climb it cleanly the first time regardless of whether someone climbed it before you? Or, do you claim an OS only when you have no beta from any source other than the rock and chalk marks?

The kids of today. My word.

An onsight occurs only when you're wandering in the woods, come unexpectedly across a crag (with no chalk or other signs of previous ascent), spy a viable line, and then climb it.

Unless you're kind of old. Red-point today, onsight tomorrow...

I onsight all my projects

I once pulled a 6' roof about 50' above my belayer with zero gear in. What held me together was that I knew it was 5.8. The first guy up it did not have that luxury, and also did not have any gear in either. Even just knowing the grade mitigates the accomplishment. Ironically, onsight is a sport term but probably only really exists with first ascent (no hang) trad.

Unless you are on-sighting 5.14+ and reporting to the mags, you are probably the only one that cares what you have on-sighted. If you truly believe that you didn't glean any beta from belaying call it an on-sight. We have to remember that it is only climbing a rock. Have fun, push yourself, find your own challenges, don't judge anyone else for their path, and I think you can't go wrong. That said I can't imagine not getting any beta after belaying someone on a route.

Jeremy H wrote:We have to remember that it is only climbing a rock.

Funny! and true.

depends if the draws have been hung for you, then it's a pink-point ;)

You must be 12 to be asking this, but here goes anyway:

Saw someone climb it= flash
Heard someone climb it=flash
Climbed it before=red point
Gear in place=pink point
Read a guide book=who the f cares

Seriously. Stumble upon something truly unknown=onsight.
Everything else has been soiled or stained in some way=Brown Point.

But, who really cares what you did? Nobody. Ethics take place in the mind. If you know you did it without anybody, any book, any chalk, any any any, then you get the reward. But, in today's society, people have explanations, excuses, and inventive rules. "I belayed him, but I didn't look." "I smoked pot, but didn't inhale."

Yes, this post is harsh and abrasive. But, the truth isn't always pleasant. Now go and push yourself as hard as you please, take some chances and have some fun. Climbing is supposed to be fun you know. Style is becoming a lost art. If you feel good about it, then awesome. If something feels amiss, then, well, you know...

You might even create a post in an attempt to validate.

I can on-sight a route multiple times. That's the bonus with having a horrible memory.

mag wrote:You must be 12 to be asking this...

haha, no. but, thanks for talking to me as though i am. i'm 36.

and, i don't measure my climbing against others or their definitions. i was thinking about the variety of ways people look at climbing and thought it'd be interesting to see what others think.

matt snider wrote:I can on-sight a route multiple times. That's the bonus with having a horrible memory.

He's telling the truth here.....

It is also impossible to onsight any route at Indian Creek, since you can see the crack and have a good idea of what size it is from the ground. Sorry. No exceptions.

camhead wrote:It is also impossible to onsight any route at Indian Creek, since you can see the crack and have a good idea of what size it is from the ground. Sorry. No exceptions.

Really?

What if before my FA I was blind folded (from car to climb), spun around 20 times, removed the blind fold then immediatley started climbing and only used hexes? ;)

So...uh... the only way to onsight at Indian Creek is with your eyes closed? And if the only way to onsight something is if you think it's a FA? I dunno, maybe I just suck that bad, but I can belay my partner without knowing what the hell he did sixty feet up at a roof. I'll still call it an onsight even if I know generally where the route goes and I know the grade. I can still bobble it--just knowing those things doesn't mean you've got the key to the route. If I saw or know what my partner did, or if there's a braille trail of chalk on it--which I usually have and usually can see at the Gunks--then calling it an onsight is stretching it a bit, but there has to be a little room in the definition of the word--otherwise why have it if we can't actually use it?

Overheard conversation at my home crag a number of years back.

"I worked it and worked it and worked it and then I FLASHED IT!!"

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.

If you feel like you are exploring up there, testing different holds, desperate to find the right sequence before you pitch off, you are probably on-sighting.

Andrew Caraballo wrote:depends if the draws have been hung for you, then it's a pink-point ;)

Ha, That's awesome I didn't anyone else but my little crew used that phrase.