borrowing gear

What is the feeling of allowing your partner to borrow your rack? I've been climbing for years and have never allowed my gear out of my fat, grubby hands. All of my old partners had their own gear and this was never a problem. Now I have a weekly partner (newbie) who has been nice enough to split the cost of a rope and we climb twice a week. So now he wants to go without me, but with the rope, all my draws, and anchors, ect. So what does the average climber think?

"Neither borrower nor lender be." - Shakespeare

Buy your own gear, use your own gear, keep your own gear.
Your partner(s) should do the same.

Of course, collaborate when necessary, but clearly ID-label your own stuff, and sort/retrieve it immediately after route's completion (same for your partner).

Sharing in the initial cost/purchase of ropes, pro, draws, etc. only invites future conflicts. -- Save-up and buy your own sh*t (and don't loan it out).

i'm sorta with dave. i always balk at my climbing partner borrowing my gear. if it's something he doesn't have and needs for a specific climb, or if he needs doubles of a cam or something i'm generally ok with that, but i certainly wouldn't, say, give him my 9.2 mm rope just cause he didn't want to lug around his 10.1.

Generally if I trust you with my life to belay me, then I trust you with my gear. I haven't ever loaned out a whole rack, but some cams here and there, screws, and tools have been loaned out to trusted partners. Likewise I borrow big bros from a partner the couple times a year that I use them instead of buying them myself. This has worked out for years.

I never would have lead that first trad climb without borrowing gear.

Does anyone own 8 #2 camalots for Indian Creek?

This all sounds really marxist to me. I'm going to go out and find some public forum and scream at people.

mobley wrote: Does anyone own 8 #2 camalots for Indian Creek?

Yes.

mobley wrote: Does anyone own 8 #2 camalots for Indian Creek?

Not that I would loan.............But I could meet you there.

Micah Isaac wrote:Generally if I trust you with my life to belay me, then I trust you with my gear. I haven't ever loaned out a whole rack, but some cams here and there, screws, and tools have been loaned out to trusted partners. Likewise I borrow big bros from a partner the couple times a year that I use them instead of buying them myself. This has worked out for years.

I agree with micah. I also have multiple sets of cams and loaned them out . the rope thing is kinda sticky. you both split the cost so that is neither here or there. when you are with this cat how does he treat your shit? I trust my partners and if they need to borrow cams and what have you it is all good. I would rather have them have the pro that is needed and have an incredible experience than not have it. Gear can be replaced lives can't.I've dropped screws and cams from high up on a route. if it is not mine I replace it. why would a climber fuck your shit up intentionally and then not tell you or keep climbing on it?

Cam's are where it gets a lil tricky. But since its just a rope (that you split the costs) and some draws/anchor I think I'd be fine with that. Can't really mess that stuff up too easily.

I'm with the folks that are fine loaning hard goods (cams, draws, etc.). I do it all the time. And yes, I do have 8 gold camalots--but this is an interesting point. Some of them I bought used. This thread could go off on a tangent here, but I think that you could probably sum up how you feel about the situation by thinking about how you feel about buying used gear from someone you don't know.

Cams are complex little devices, but the sort of things that will actually make them dangerous to use (dropping them a long distance), will leave a visible scar/dent. They are expensive, and places like the desert reqire lots of them. So, I've become comfortable buying used ones. I typically replace the slings, which leads me to my next point.

I wouldn't buy a used rope. It is one of the few single-point-failure items in climbing (harness is another). I want to know its entire history. I have loaned out a static rope on occasion, but I always grill the person about what they were doing with it. I don't think I've ever loaned a lead rope, or borrowed one. But here's a strange twist, I lead on my friends' ropes all the time. I don't know the complete history of that rope, but I do have trust in my friends.

So this all comes back to the advice Michael Stacy gave about ground rules. Since this guy is new, and you are more experienced, it shouldn't be too awkward for you to explain what you are concerned about, and how you would like to him to treat the gear.

We put trust in our partners all the time, and you will need to do the same with this guy. But with a new climber it is important, and appropriate, to educate them about what you trust they are doing with the gear.

DaveB wrote:"Neither borrower nor lender be." - Shakespeare

Sorry, 'cause this is pedantic as hell, but the speaker of this quote is not a sympathetic character at all. The whole speech where this line appears (and which also includes "to thine own self be true") is a lecture on looking out for ol' number one. It's not really supposed to be understood as sound advice.

I've lent out a few specialty pieces (large cams) to close friends that needed them for certain climbs or trips to Vedawoo. There was always an agreement that they let me know about any falls etc. That way I'm aware of the history.

Lending out a whole rack and rope...I don't think I would feel comfortable lending out the whole shebang.

I have loaned out my whole rack several times. And I've also borrowed a metric shit ton of gear over the years. It isn't that big a deal.

JulianM wrote: looking out for ol' number one. It's not really supposed to be understood as sound advice.

In this case, it is sound advice. We're discussing your very own a$$-saving rack.

I'll loan things to people I climb with and draw the line there. 'Course, true to the old proverb about borrowing your neighbor's horse, the borrower shall replace the gear if something happens to it.

It's totally situation and person dependent. But I'm more likely to say no that yes.

if you have multiple partners, you need to carry your own protection.

seriously, though, I'd lend gear to my closest, reliable friends with the expectation that it would be returned in the same or better condition it was in. but I wouldn't share a rope. I want to know everything that happens to my rope...how many and what kind of falls it's taken, how much it's been dragged over rocks, how much it's been dragged through the dirt...

mobley wrote: Does anyone own 8 #2 camalots for Indian Creek?

Any of my regular IC partners and I can combine our racks to have eight of any size cam. I have certainly been known to lend out a few of my cams for the weekend but never a rope. I would never expect to be asked actually. Your buddy should buy his own gear... and chip in for gas!

my wife and i have 6 to 8 sets of camalots and 4 sets of friends, so we are pretty lucky. we can climb pretty much anything at the creek independently, with very few exceptions. as far as lending out gear, i don't have a problem lending to close friends. my close friends are good people who would undoubtedly replace anything they lost. if i were to ever lose something i borrowed, i would without question replace it with a brand new one. even if the old one was on its very last legs. its a lot cheaper to replace an old friend with a new one, than to replace an old friend!

I lend out occasional specialized stuff, and expect the same in return. Specifically I've lent out:

1. Portaledge, well my spare old Fish one I got off Ebay.
2. Special aid gear, like offset aliens, black alien, handful of pins, hammer (only my $12 Cassin one, in hopes I'll get an excuse to upgrade).
3. Haulbag IF it's for a route I'll be on and my partner doesn't have one.
4. BIG gear, mainly since folks into the wide tend not to be as sketchy, at least in the gear treatment side of things.

There are only a few people in the world to which I would lend gear. That said, these are great folk, trustworthy, honest, would lend you their right arm if you needed it. I've lent out a haulbag, a double rack of cams, and a rope before. I knew they would take care of it like it was their own (they take good care of their own gear), and I knew if anything should happen to any of it, they would hold themselves responsible and replace it, etc.

BUT...if it's a new partner, new to climbing, or someone who just doesn't like his old school camalots, and loves your new C4's, I'd have to say no thanks.