Redpoint, onsite, flash, project, send ???

Does anyone have the definitive explanation of these terms. I don't want my son to sound like a dick when describing his various climbs.

What constitutes a send? is it just getting up the wall with however many falls?

an onsite?
a flash is a bouldering term right? (first time, no falls)

redpoint? does it mean no falls?

is sending a project meaning doing it with or without falls?

I know these are dumb questions but we don't climb outside (just a lot by ourselves around Table and CCC and if you see us say hi!) with a lot of people so we have not heard correct usage of the lingo. Please don't make fun of me because I am a mere belay slave and am working hard to produce a respectful and decent climber.(who doesn't sound like an idiot!)

Send- Doing a climbing without falls on lead, or doing a boulder problem all the way through without falls, regardless of the amount you've tried the route/ problem.

Onsite- Doing a route/ boulder first try without falling and without prior information. i.e. you haven't watched someone do the boulder problem.

Flash- Doing a route/ boulder first try without falling with some information, such as a rack suggestion or beta.

Redpoint- Mostly used in sport climbing. Doing a route without falling after at least one attempt.

Pinkpoint- not often used anymore, but used to mean doing a sport climb without falling after at least one attempt with the quickdraws prehung.

Project- A term for a route/ boulder you're trying to climb without falling, that takes you multiple attempts. Once you've climbed a project without falling, you've sent and it's no longer a project.

Don't feel silly for not knowing all this, it's more silly that all these terms exist.

E

Red point is also used in Trad climbing and Pink Pointing doesn't really exist any more, the term is used every once in a while when you read about someone doing an extremely hard trad route with pre-placed gear.

Around here most peole just say red-point with preplaced gear if your into that sort of thing. Ultimately the goal is to climb from the bottom to the top with out weighting the rope or gear. Placing the gear on lead is better style, and I don't know anyone who uses the term Pink-point in reference to sport climbing, placing draws is too thoughtless and easy compared to putting in good gear while on lead.

Onsight over the years seems to have become a diluted term. Guidebooks, topos, web descriptions, and photos have lowered the bar.

Red Point is a common trad term. Rarely these days do I hear Pink Point being tossed around in conversation.

Your son also won't be a "dick", as you call it, if he doesn't focus on grades and bragging about sends, onsights and flashes. I have too many friends who only climb so they can brag about it.

I'm reviving this from the dead because, well I can't believe no one made this comment already. And because people still read it. 

Wesley wrote: Your son also won't be a "dick", as you call it, if he doesn't focus on grades and bragging about sends, onsights and flashes. I have too many friends who only climb so they can brag about it.

I'm reviving this from the dead because, well I can't believe no one made this comment already. And because people still read it. 

Holy graveyard Bump.

His boy may very well be a man now.

eliclimbs wrote: Send- Doing a climbing without falls on lead, or doing a boulder problem all the way through without falls, regardless of the amount you've tried the route/ problem. Onsite- Doing a route/ boulder first try without falling and without prior information. i.e. you haven't watched someone do the boulder problem. Flash- Doing a route/ boulder first try without falling with some information, such as a rack suggestion or beta. Redpoint- Mostly used in sport climbing. Doing a route without falling after at least one attempt. Pinkpoint- not often used anymore, but used to mean doing a sport climb without falling after at least one attempt with the quickdraws prehung. Project- A term for a route/ boulder you're trying to climb without falling, that takes you multiple attempts. Once you've climbed a project without falling, you've sent and it's no longer a project. Don't feel silly for not knowing all this, it's more silly that all these terms exist. E

I don't think a send requires leading. Just climbing a route without falling / resting on gear. So you can send on top rope.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think a send requires leading. Just climbing a route without falling / resting on gear. So you can send on top rope.

Agreed.  Send is a pretty generic term anyway, used in skiing and other sports.  Climbing a round without a fall or hang regardless of bouldering, trad, sport or TR is what most people would refer too as a "send" - even (gasp) in the gym.  Fortunately for me I usually on-site because I'm too clueless to understand topos.  

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think a send requires leading. Just climbing a route without falling / resting on gear. So you can send on top rope.

I agree, but go try to report a significant send around the campfire without specifying that it was on TR, and let me know how that goes for you.

Oh, and OP chekkitout!

Super old thread bouncing back to life...

Sample scenario. If I ask one of my mates, “Did you send?” He/she might say, “No, but it went clean on TR; going for the redpoint next weekend.” Indeed, See above comment regarding campfire banter. 

Also, in no circles of seasoned climbers will you ever hear a clean TR attempt referred to as an “onsight.” Why? Because it was top rope. Thems the rules of the game. If there’s any philosophical wiggle room for defining “onsight,” top rope ain’t one of them.

If you wanna add more terms to the list, you can use Tronsight, Trash, or Tredpoint to specify TR “sends”. 

Stephen L wrote:

Super old thread bouncing back to life...

Sample scenario. If I ask one of my mates, “Did you send?” He/she might say, “No, but it went clean on TR; going for the redpoint next weekend.” Indeed, See above comment regarding campfire banter. 

Also, in no circles of seasoned climbers will you ever hear a clean TR attempt referred to as an “onsight.” Why? Because it was top rope. Thems the rules of the game. If there’s any philosophical wiggle room for defining “onsight,” top rope ain’t one of them.

Uh-huh.  I didn't say anything about counting TRs as an on-site if that is what you are implying.  On-site, flash and redpoint (and pinkpoint) have defined meanings and are relevant to ticks on MP etc.  Send, full send, etc are more like give'r at this point IMHO.  Just slang terms with no specific technical meaning.

Shane K wrote:

Uh-huh.  I didn't say anything about counting TRs as an on-site if that is what you are implying.  On-site, flash and redpoint (and pinkpoint) have defined meanings and are relevant to ticks on MP etc.  Send, full send, etc are more like give'r at this point IMHO.  Just slang terms with no specific technical meaning.

I'm intrigued by this "on-site" possibility that keeps coming up.  Do we now have the ability to SFH (Send From Home) and do a virtual ascent?  If so I guess it makes sense to distinguish one of these from an "on-site"

Shane K wrote:

Uh-huh.  I didn't say anything about counting TRs as an on-site if that is what you are implying.  On-site, flash and redpoint (and pinkpoint) have defined meanings and are relevant to ticks on MP etc.  Send, full send, etc are more like give'r at this point IMHO.  Just slang terms with no specific technical meaning.

I never quoted you, Shane. There's no implication; I said what I said. Now, have I passed-through a circus at the crag and overheard "when I onsighted on TR"? Yes. I have heard that... 

Truth is. It's ALL slang. 

Stephen L wrote:

I never quoted you, Shane. There's no implication; I said what I said. Now, have I passed-through a circus at the crag and overheard "when I onsighted on TR"? Yes. I have heard that... 

Truth is. It's ALL slang. 

Gotcha, lol.  I have heard people say they "sent" a TR and even "flashed" a TR, but someone claiming a TR onsite is new to me!

Warriors wrote:

TRON!

The only Tron I'll acknowledge is Flynn's ;) 

Shane K wrote:

Gotcha, lol.  I have heard people say they "sent" a TR and even "flashed" a TR, but someone claiming a TR onsite is new to me!

Ha, yup. New for me too. The only reason I even mention it is because while rushing past the typical crowded area of the crag last weekend I heard several interesting things. That was one of them. 

What's the difference, why does any of it matter, one may ask. For one, the game isn't very interesting if we just keep making up our own rules... 

Should a first go send be counted as an onsite be counted if the draws are hung?