Petzl Rocpecker Hand Drill

Hi , I found a cliff around where I live a couple of years ago. I inspected it last summer and the rock seems to be solid and of ok quality.

Anyways I thought I'd be nice to put anchors on the top so I could TR them for now and maybe someday put in bolts to make a few sport climbs.

I was wondering if the Petzl hand drill would be a good alternative to an expensive cordless rotary hammer drill for installing simple anchors...

Furthermore, I have never installed bolts but I've climbed at a lot of sport cliffs. It seems to me that expansion bolts dont need glue but I just want to make sure it is the case because I've been in Grenoble, France for the last 2 and a half month and here they put glue with the expansion bolt as well...

It seems kinda odd...

Anyways if someone has any suggestions concerning the hand drill let me know...

Hand drills suck, especially if you're going to put in beefy rap/TR anchors. Unless you're drilling in sandstone, and I assume you don't have much of that in Quebec, you're looking at 1/2 hours per hole at least. My reference is 3/8" x 2 1/2" in granite, for TR anchors you might want to go beefier, which means more time.
By the time you're halfway through the 1st hole you'll be hating yourself. Your best bet is to find someone with a drill...

Drilling by hand really, REALLY sucks. I hand-drilled a 1/2" x 5" hole in sandstone last week with my Rocpecker hand drill and it took 45 minutes-1 hour. If you've got lots of time, patience, and a high pain tolerance (my wrist is still a little sore) then yes, you'll be just fine. Otherwise, get a cordless rotary hammer drill.

And no, expansion bolts don't need glue.

-Tristan

Sounds like you want to look up a local or two with bolting experience and maybe practice on some out-of-the-way choss before you launch into this one. "I have never installed bolts but I've climbed at a lot of sport cliffs" is a lot like playing a doctor on TV...

I don't want to sound like the gatekeeper of the bolters club or anything but there are a few things best learned on the ground before you go building permanent anchors to which others will unquestioningly entrust their lives. Most people screw up a few in the learning process and this is best done in a place where no one will care. The experienced local(s) will probably have some good advice around appropriate hardware for the rock type and location.

Power drills vs. hand drills= time/money equation with variables known only to yourself.

Hand drills also have a tendency to drill slightly larger holes...with expansion bolts and little experience this can get dangerous pretty quickly. You also go through bits faster because hand drilling with a dull bit is unbearable(50 minutes of numb legs and tink, twist, tink, twist unbearable)while with a power drill only a couple minutes are added. I also agree that it is worth watching someone who has done this before...its not a public service if your bolts rip out and kill someone.

Thanks for the advices... I think I will hold off on the hand drill.

I have another question...

Hammer drill... I've read it's possible to bolt with a Hammer drill (without the Rotary) but it will vibrate a lot.

The reason I am asking is that these drills (up to 24V) can be rented whereas it's impossible to find a cordless rotary hammer drill to rent. Hammer drill are also half of the price of the Rotary hammer drills
Buying a Rotary Hammer drill is just not an option with my student "salary".

Furthermore, I don't know a person that owns a nice rotary hammer drill...wish I did then it would be much simpler...
Stay reassured though I'm gonna ask help from my friend who has bolted many climbs before I start bolting.

The hammer drills I have used took a while, those were only 18 volt though...I suspect if you got the right one it would work ok. Nothing beats a good Bosch or Hilti rotary though in my opinion.

You don't necessarily need to spring for a Hilti or Bosch. I'm a student, too, and couldn't afford one of those. Here is the drill that I have and it works great. Not a bad deal (I paid $30 more for mine). When my batteries were new I could get 12-15 3/8" holes in limestone. Someone will probably come up and say "Don't mess with anything but Hilti or Bosch" but I've drilled hundreds of holes with my DeWalt and have been happy with it. I've used extensively my buddy's 36v Bosch and have seen no significant benefits. Here's (it's in a post by Todd Gordon) another testimony of the DeWalt.

Having said that, I just bought a Bosch Annihilator off eBay (without batteries or charger) to convert to take higher-capacity batteries. The drill was $75 (!), batteries will cost another $40, a charger will be $20, plus wire and stuff should be another $20 at most. (Search on Supertopo forums for info on how to do the conversion). There are lots of options...

-Tristan

Just buy the hand drill. They are cheap. Sure, you are at 1/2 hour per bolt, but you save a lot of money. If you install a few anchors and get the bug then you will have a lot easier time justifying the large cost of a "real drill". I'm sure you can find an hour to install a TR anchor. I started off on the hand drill and after about 10 bolts in bulletproof granite, I decided the cost of the power drill was worth it. The hand drill is a LOT lighter and better for crags with long approaches and few bolts.

My friends tried a hammer drill and gave up half way through. They didn't have an SDS chuck and that screwed them.

I second the hand drill. Practice on a boulder, then go up there and sink a couple top anchors. Make sure you consider how the rope will pull and the right locations.

i also like the hand drill. with patience and technique you can get a near perfect hole. As with most things, the key is in the body position and rhythm. They are a great back-up to the power drill, and will save you money on bolts...

They have their place. Anyone that thinks they suck are in too much of a hurry. If you are in a hurry, you will make a mistake with the hole. Drill a few dozen by hand, and you will get pretty good at it. And you may surprise yourself. In some rock types, I used to be able to hand drill a 3/8" x 2.5" hole in the time it took me to smoke a cig.

It's really no big deal to hand drill, it just takes some patience, and you'll get faster. Regardless of what you get, listen to Rob and practice on small boulders/large rocks (not bouldering boulders!).

And make sure to learn the installation torque for your bolt(s). Borrow a torque wrench for your practice bolts and learn how hard you want to tighten the bolts. If the installation torque is 20 ft-lbs, use the torque wrench to 18ft-lbs and then use the little wrench you'll bring to the crag to do the last little bit - that way you can learn how tight to tighten the bolt. Over-torquing bolts is the most common mistake (one that even experienced bolters make), and you can snap even 3/8" bolts with a short wrench.

Hand drills have loads of advantages - weight, size, battery doesn't run out, etc. Learn with one and it will also teach you to limit your drilling to what's absolutely needed. It's also a good base skill to fall back on if you later start power drilling and the battery runs out.

Greg Barnes wrote:Over-torquing bolts is the most common mistake (one that even experienced bolters make), and you can snap even 3/8" bolts with a short wrench. Hand drills have loads of advantages - weight, size, battery doesn't run out, etc. Learn with one and it will also teach you to limit your drilling to what's absolutely needed. It's also a good base skill to fall back on if you later start power drilling and the battery runs out.

i once sheared a bolt by over tightening. pretty sobering. greg brings up a good point, bc it is possible to over torque a bolt and it could hypothetically start to yield... then suppose some poor dude whips on the thing... yikes!

i use short wrenches. they are the cat's-ass ratcheting snub ones. save more knuckle skin that way.

My vote would be for you to just use a hand drill.

If you're just installing TR anchors first it won't be that bad. I know a lot of people say hand drilling sucks but I've installed a ton of bolts by hand in hard and soft rock and if you're doing just a minimum amount of installation then it will save you a lot of money. I have a power drill now but I still hand drill a lot of stuff in softer rock like sandstone because the drill is so much lighter to carry.

Later, if you end up bolting a bunch of sport routes then a power drill will probably be the way to go. If you get into full sport development, it just won't be feasible to be hand drilling routes with 10 bolts each.

Plus, I think there's a certain amount of "value" in learning how to drill by hand first. I feel that when you put a power drill in your hands it's easy to just go "bolt the heck out of it" because you can drill a hole in seconds. When you're doing it by hand, you'll find yourself carefully considering every placement and some of that thought process carries over if you do end up getting a power drill.

Tristan Higbee wrote:I just bought a Bosch Annihilator off eBay (without batteries or charger) to convert to take higher-capacity batteries. The drill was $75 (!), batteries will cost another $40, a charger will be $20, plus wire and stuff should be another $20 at most. (Search on Supertopo forums for info on how to do the conversion). There are lots of options... -Tristan

Tristan,

I just converted my Bosch Annihilator to an external battery pack, using much of the advice from Supertopo. If you're interested, or anyone else, I can share what I did, which didn't involved taking the drill apart. I set it up so I could go back and forth from a single standard battery and my external battery pack. Works outstanding by the way.

Consider, also, over-torquing your bolts [by a few pounds] then backing them off to the correct torque. This will help reduce bad bolts; i've snapped a couple doing this. Any metal is susceptible to irregularities and flaws regardless of whatever fancy standards and acronyms the manufacturer "adheres to" and slaps up on their pretty web page. Assume nothing, iow.

Good advice on learning to use a hand drill, guys. I think you should place about a hundred with a hand drill before buying a cordless. Or at least a few dozen.

sorry got distracted.

Daryl Allan wrote:I think you should place about a hundred with a hand drill before buying a cordless. Or at least a few dozen.

best advice yet. almost a rite of passage.

Nobody with a hand drill has ever said "what the heck, I'll just slap another bolt in there..."

-definitely encourages thoughtful placement.

I think everybody who wants to bolt should have to in fact drill by hand first until they figure this out. This will really make you think twice about drilling,true. It is also a necessary learning experience to be a good anchor placer, route setter, and thoughtful balancer of nature and desire for the sick new send bra. Place at least twenty by hand, do it right, do it clean, use the best hardware and then see how you feel.

Agreed... also, for best results while using your pecker, be sure to maintain a firm grip on it, whacking and twisting with a steady rhythm until the correct depth into the hole is reached.

The rocpek is nice in that it needs no tools to install and remove bits. The flange to protect your hand could be bigger but if you have any carpentry experience you should be fine.

As far as time to drill a bolt, it varies dramatically. I've seen people take 45min to an hour to drill their first bolts. At the start of the year it take about 20+ min per bolt for me and after a day or two I usually get it down to about 15 min, the biggest difference is how many you can do in a day before you get blasted, 5 the first day and up to 15+ later.

Start by turning the drill back and forth as you hammer on the end. Once the rock is dimmpled start turning the drill constantly as if you were trying to screw it into the rock. If you've done any ice climbing the idea is similar for starting a screw. Your wrist will only turn so far as you drill so I usually set up a rythm of counting to 5 or 7 hammer blow before I have to reset my drill hand. You will want to rest often to avoid getting too pumped. When you rest drop the hammer and left go of the drill so you have nothing in your hands. Blow out the hole regularly, about every quarter inch or so, it is easier to drill in a clean hole. Mark your blow tube with the depth needed for your bolts so you know when you get there. Make sure to stay niceand perpendicular to the rock surface and consider where carabiners will rest and ropes will run.

Cordless drills are like bouldering, less work, instant satisfaction but less rewarding. Fits the American attitude of fast food and now now now.