Auto-Blocking Belay device?

I'm looking to try a new balay device and would like to get one that can be used to bring up a second in the auto-block mode. Currently I carry a Trango Pyramid to belay and either a Trango Cinch or a GriGri for bringing up seconds.

So my question is, if you could only have one device to do it all what would it be and why?

For autoblocking I use a ghost but the bd guide and reverso3 should be considered bc of the added luxury of the bottom keyway that can be leveraged with an open biner to 'open' the autoblock. Both much lighter than the grigri which is, i think, what you're trying to mitigate here. Either way, always carry a spare! iow, keep your old tube or similar on the haul loop just in case. :)

I really like my BD guide. I never considered a auto blocking device tell I scored a good deal on this, now Ill never be without it. It is VERY nice for bring up... slow/tired seconds who need to rest on the rope often. The only thing I dislike is its weight (yes Im a gram counting weenie), but obviously its not a big enough concern to make me leave it behind. Using my nut tool it is very easy to release tension/lower with it as well.
Petzls new device is a fair bit lighter, which I like but I dont like the orientation of its anchor point. When hanging from an anchor up against a wall the bd sits nice and flush against the wall, while the Petzl sits with a 90* twist to it... Again really not a big deal. Releasing tension is no big deal either with Petzls device.

These are the only two devices I have any real world experience with, and I would take either one with me anytime.

Petzl Reverso, and for smaller ropes & doubles, the Reversino...

They work great, act very much like standard belay devices, and are very simple to use...

I actually really like the Gri-Gri. There was a time when I absolutly hated it and actually deemed it "unsafe" due to the false sense of security it often provides. However after using one for almost a year, I would prefer it to almost anything. Not only can you belay leaders and seconds with the same set up, but lowering is much easier and you do not need extra carabiners or cord like with the ATC guide or similar devices. And because it is auto locking whether you are belaying a leader or a scond, if there is ever an instance where the belayer becomes unable to belay, (gets hit by rockfall for instance) the leader is in a much safer situation then if a tubular device were used. Obviously this is just my opinion, but if I were you I would carry the Gri-Gri for all my climbing needs.

Jeff Gustafson wrote:Petzl Reverso, and for smaller ropes & doubles, the Reversino... They work great, act very much like standard belay devices, and are very simple to use...

The new Reverso 3 takes ropes down to 7.5mm eliminating the need for a reversino.

I have both the reverso 3 and the BD guide and I would recommend the guide. The reverso is lighter, but I have to almost force a 9.4mm rope through. Silly reason to change belay devices, but I found it a little annoying. I could imagine what a pain it would be to force anything over a 10mm through. Plus the BD is $2 bucks cheaper.

I've got an ATC guide and a reverso 3, and used the reverso & reversino before they came out. I gave away the reverso and am keeping the reversino because it looks so darn cute :)

I've had no problems using a reverso 3 with 10.5mm ropes.

A friend from Canada said he actually wore out the HF grooves on his ATC guide from all the rappelling he did on ice ropes, but I would imagine that would happen with the reverso 3 too.

The reverso 3 is definitely lighter than the ATC guide. Either seems quite versatile. The ATC guide's clipping hole is 90 degrees off from the reverso 3's. Not that it's made any difference to me ..

Not a big deal but the hanging/clipping hole on the reverso3 is large enough that you can fit the barrel on the gate of a locking carabiner through it. It can be helpful if you need to re-orient your biner.

I have a 10.2 rope that I have no trouble getting a smooth belay with.

I am a big fan of the reverso, one thing to be aware of though, too much rappelling or lowering seconds can ware the one side to a sharp edge which is bad news when tensioning a rope across it. So i use the reverso and rap/ tr/ lower seconds with an atc, or a munter hitch which can save you some weight.

The Trango B-52 is a great design. It is lighter and less bulky than the guide and feeds amazingly smooth.

Also look at the Kong Gigi. This is basically a simple plate that is great for bringing up seconds. It's simple design makes it very smooth and it fits all rope sizes well.

Steve Harp wrote:I think the ATC Guide is great. The release hole is not big enough for most biners to fit through to the barrel, only the nose fits.(some exceptions exist) I slung mine with a short piece of 7mil to make a larger, longer, loop to pull. Simple fix. IMHO, the best all-around autoblock. I was going to post a pic, but can't figure out how. Oh well, seems easy enough to understand. Happy shopping, SH

Get rid of the cord and use your nut tool as a lever. Make sure to redirect the brake strand to maximize control if you have to lower. If you have to lower for a long distance and the climber can take the load off by standing on a ledge then place a catastrophe knot in the brake strand;attache the device to the anchor in rappel mode, then release the device from auto-lock mode by dropping the biner from the MP. The final two step are too redirect the brake strand and I recommend having a hands free backup formed by a friction hitch.

Robert, why exactly do you need 2 devices in the first place? The cinch or gri-gri will do it all except bring up 2 simul seconds.

Either reverso or guide product works well. The guide isn't as susceptible to wear on the climber-side as the reverso & I think the guide is more efficient overall than the reverso products. You can lever any of these with a pulley sling, regardless of the little hole the guide has & the reverso that doesn't.

Two applications that a gri-gri or cinch works better for are: the transition from weighted line to a lower, and for use as a haul ratchet. The drawbacks are range of acceptable strand size, weight, & 2-strand belaying.

Mark Nelson wrote:Robert, why exactly do you need 2 devices in the first place?

Thanks all for the info.

Mark, What I'm looking for is one device that will do it all. I like the GriGri for bringing up seconds but I don't like to belay a leader with it and it's heavy. Same with the Cinch except it's not to heavy. I like to belay with a standard tube device because I feel like I have more control. So I'm just looking to try some alternatives to see if I like something better.

For me without a doubt a reverso for larger ropes and reversino for the thin cord. Granted the reverso3 can do various sized ropes, but reversino is lighter yet. With a grigri, you might still need a second device for rapping with two ropes, if you don't know deviceless methods to rap or belay. My two pennies.

Juan

hey Robert if ya want I can mail you my BD ATC Guide to try, I won't be climbing again for a couple months, besides I have an extra I use more? probably like 2 bucks shipping.

no1nprtclr wrote: With a grigri, you might still need a second device for rapping with two ropes Juan

nah, you can do it; at the anchor, just knot one strand with a bight and clip to the other with a biner to close that part of the system.

Mark Nelson wrote: The cinch or gri-gri will do it all except bring up 2 simul seconds.

I should correct that part, you can do it with one strand and a mid-line butterfly; as I concluded, I meant 2-strand simul belay.

REVERSO 3!

My vote is for the cinch/ATC combo. The cinch for hauling up the second and belaying and an ATC for raps. That way, you have multiple belay options and a backup for about the same weight as the gri-gri. I usually rack the ATC on an oval with my water and camera and never notice it.

The cinch beats the gri-gri on trad and multi-pitch for the weight and size, while the gri-gri comes with my to the gym and sport climbing for the smooth rope handling and easier lowering.

I found my ATC guide to be more finicky than the cinch while belaying off the anchor. It seemed to not like to feed smoothly depending on the rope/carabiner. Then, unlocking it could be a pain. The only advantage of the guide/reverso, IMHO, is that you can simul-belay two strands. For the once a year I do this, I just take my gri-gri, also.

So, to answer Robert's question, I wouldn't have a single device to do it all, and I would save my money for more pro rather than a new belay device.

If you are going to bring a device specially for rapping why not a fig 8? I have read that the rope kinking thing is not a problem if you keep the break strand in the same orientation as the rope ( straight down ). Its smooth on rappel and dissipates heat well. Downside, it's heavy but we are talking about carrying a second rappel device anyway.

Same for the muenter BTW, if you brake straight down no kinking.