Free Soloing

How many of you regularly free solo? Why do you do it?

I have never had the head for extensive free soling. However, I've always felt it is the purest expression of climbing and wish I enjoyed it more. I do well on ice, but on rock, it's just a constant battle with my head, so I don't do it much.

Any thoughts on the benefit of soloing for training? I know that soling ice helped build my confidence for long run outs on ice screws, but I never felt soling rock really made me a stronger rock climber, psychologically speaking.

Thoughts?

I solo pretty regularly--but generally only on routes well within my ability (5.4 --> 5.8 or so). I picked it up only a couple years ago. Nothing has helped my head better than soloing. It also allows me to get a tremendous number of pitches done in a relatively short amount of time.

--Marc

I only do it for the chicks and the money!!!

On another note what gives with all the people in Boulder, You know who you are who insist on soloing below parties. IE) how many times does a soloist pass multiple parties on the Bastille, Or on the Flat Irons, the Flat Irons blow my mind that someone who can solo on the Flat Irons would solo below parties when we all know you can climb the Flat Irons 5'786'888'478 different ways and not be under another party.

Soloists, why would put yourself under parties on these routes especially, These routes are mostly inhabited by newer and recreational climbers, it is very possible to drop gear or knock rocks on your head and then you are SOL out of your control for choosing to be under folks in a gravity fed environment.

Besides isn't there a reason that it's called SOLO? So go SOlO somewhere by yourself.

I recently had a group of 3 on the 1st flat iron. It was there first multipitch climb and there first time removing gear. We were crawled right over by cool guy. I was trailing 2 ropes and all three were following at the same time and cool guy insisted on being right under us and crawling over us. As he arrived to my belay I merely suggested that what he was doing was a bit irresponsible and bad modeling. I suggested that my 3 participants were cleaning gear for the first time and could easily drop it, or worse they don't have the full ability to decifer the best rock to pull on, so even with coaching there could still be the possibility of any of us dropping something on your head. Why don't you go 10 or 30 meters that way and have a true SOLO experience.

Cool Guy, looked at me like I was an asshole and with a smirk on his face said I felt alright about it the whole time, It's not a problem,

Cool Guy just doesn't get it.

DON"T BE COOL GUY

Yo JP,
Sorry you had a bad experience. Regarding the OP, I solo because it's fun, I don't have to get a partner for last minute climbing, it's fast too.
I think it actually makes me worst at climbing hard. It's because when I solo, every move has to be 100 %, so I climb very carefully. When I push myself, I can't climb like this.

Eli

JPVallone wrote:I only do it for the chicks and the money!!! On another note what gives with all the people in Boulder, You know who you are who insist on soloing below parties. IE) how many times does a soloist pass multiple parties on the Bastille, Or on the Flat Irons, the Flat Irons blow my mind that someone who can solo on the Flat Irons would solo below parties when we all know you can climb the Flat Irons 5'786'888'478 different ways and not be under another party. Soloists, why would put yourself under parties on these routes especially, These routes are mostly inhabited by newer and recreational climbers, it is very possible to drop gear or knock rocks on your head and then you are SOL out of your control for choosing to be under folks in a gravity fed environment. Besides isn't there a reason that it's called SOLO? So go SOlO somewhere by yourself. I recently had a group of 3 on the 1st flat iron. It was there first multipitch climb and there first time removing gear. We were crawled right over by cool guy. I was trailing 2 ropes and all three were following at the same time and cool guy insisted on being right under us and crawling over us. As he arrived to my belay I merely suggested that what he was doing was a bit irresponsible and bad modeling. I suggested that my 3 participants were cleaning gear for the first time and could easily drop it, or worse they don't have the full ability to decifer the best rock to pull on, so even with coaching there could still be the possibility of any of us dropping something on your head. Why don't you go 10 or 30 meters that way and have a true SOLO experience. Cool Guy, looked at me like I was an asshole and with a smirk on his face said I felt alright about it the whole time, It's not a problem, Cool Guy just doesn't get it. DON"T BE COOL GUY

If the soloist was comfortable with the situation, then why does it matter to you? It doesn't sound like he impeded your ability to climb, so what is your problem?

I used to free solo a lot until I decked from 70 feet when a foot hold I was standing on broke. The fall didn't hurt but the landing sure did!

eliclimbs wrote:I think it actually makes me worst at climbing hard. It's because when I solo, every move has to be 100 %, so I climb very carefully. When I push myself, I can't climb like this. Eli

I know exactly what you mean Eli. The (very little and very easy) free soloing I do is counterproductive to climbing harder, because climbing as if every hand or foothold has to be your self-belay is no way to get better or more efficient.

Ken, not to hijack JP's answer, but Cool Guy didn't play nice in the sandbox for several reasons. For a possibly gripped beginner, it's grim to feel like she's putting someone else in danger. Cool Guy may be fine with a small chance of gear bombing, but it would cramp noobie's experience to think her next error could kill someone, whether accurate or not.

And then it's just crowded. Common courtesy suggests giving a party plenty of leeway on a rock that allows it. Many routes don't afford that kind of room, but if Cool Guy climbs over you on a Flatiron, it's cuz he wants to impress and intimidate. Uncool.

By the way, I didn't meet with my manager last holiday week. I'm still going to get that info to you.

ANSWERS FOR KEN

I have no problem with soloing, I do it as well, I agree with everyone's reason for doing it and agreed as well we all do it for different reasons and hopefully within in our abilities.

But my question Ken, is why would anyone put themselves in that situation. Do you solo underneath folks Ken? If you are comfortable with the fact that I may drop a cam on your head while soloing then I guess that makes it right for you. But climbing under and over folks takes the Soloing out of Free Soloing in my worthless opinion and creates an uneccassary risk. Not to mention that on these routes most folks are learning how to climb responsibly or just don't know what good climbing ethics may be, and it sucks when you have to explain to folks that what the soloist is doing is not crazy because of the no rope part, because crazy and dangerous is all relative, but more importantly that it is bad modeling and just plain Cocky to crawl over parties without a rope.

And Yes Ken, It does matter to me and he did impede my ability to climb and even to practically breath at one point. The Cool Guy crossed over our ropes several times while I was belaying the newbies, all it took was for one of my partners to slip and pull the rope tight on Cool Guy. I was nervous for him, because the fact that he chose to solo in that fashion suggests to me that he is not as experienced and knowledgeable as he might think he is. In addition I had to tell my folks to stay in there stances at one point to just let Cool Guy get through cause he was in such a hurry. Then to top it all off I held my breath while he stepped over my belay just inches from me when there was more than enough room to be anywhere else but under and then on top of us. So after the fact it does effect me as well because now I have a body above me without a net. And what really affects me is that there is always a possibility that anyone can fall while soling no matter who you are. I don't need to list the examples because if you are a climber then you know who these people are that have shown us that you can be the strongest climber in the world and still fall off of routes well within your ability. I don't need to see you fall to your death in front of me, that is not a choice I make when I go out and climb, So I am just suggesting that it would be nice if I did not have to watch you solo and potentially splat on the same route that I am on.

I have done some dumb things in my career, and I am sure we can all share an experience. But I have learned and feel that when I solo now I do it because of the solo part and try to be alone for a true soloing experience.

Bottom line for me Ken, is that I am merely voicing my opinion and choose not to solo under, on or over folks for obvious reasons, and because I think it is a bad example for folks that are most likely new to the sport on these easy routes. I am an advocate of Climbing education and try to set a good example at the crags. My opinion is not necessarily right, but just voices concern and I guess wonder for why someone would put themselves in that situation.

Did I answer your questions Ken, or create more?

Shawn,

I don't really want to get into a drawn out discussion about soloing etiquette, so I'll leave it at this: As someone who did quite a bit of soloing on the Front Range, I can tell you that traffic is a normal part of the game, and soloists don't always have the option to just move out of the way or climb twenty feet to the right or left.

The beginners were tied in and apparently in no danger from the soloist, so there was no problem. Being nervous is a normal part of climbing, and they need to get used to dealing with things like this at some point, anyway.

I feel that too much theory gets thrown around on these sites, by people with not enough real-life experience to make rational judgments about particular situations. My problem with that is that other inexperienced climbers - who look to these site as educational references - adopt these judgments and theoretical principles because they don't know any better and get caught up in the online banter.

New climbers need to understand that this type of encounter is a normal part of the sport. Regardless of whether you agree with the soloist, when you are roped in, and they are not, it is best to give them the right-of-way, because the alternative could be quite ugly.

I solo..Irregularly..only on easy stuff 5-5.6..for time saveing pitches ...or if your god damn rope gets stuck on pulls!

JPVallone wrote: So after the fact it does effect me as well because now I have a body above me without a net.

This does seem a bit rude as it forces an unsolicited risk onto the climbers below.

Soloing can definitely be a shirt-off/shirt-on thing. Soloing over other parties is a shirt-off sort of thing, and soloing a completely independent line, or preferably, away from others altogether is a shirt-on sort of thing.

JPVallone wrote: But climbing under and over folks takes the Soloing out of Free Soloing in my worthless opinion and creates an uneccassary risk.

Thats why most people climb! The risks

I don't solo at all. Mostly because I have a wife I love and respect, and I know she would be terrified if I were out soloing. Based on the high-ball-ish bouldering I've done, I know that the personal satisfaction I get isn't enough to counter-balance the stress I would create.

And I don't mean to imply that married soloists/soloists in committed relationships don't love or respect their partners. I just know my own wife and I don't want her to think of my climbing as a source of fear for her. She worries enough as it is.

Also, I don't have the head for playing very high off the deck. :)

j

Ken, you make some good points. Some answers occur to me, but I don't really have the standing or desire to raise them, so I'll bow out and try to sort it out in my own mind--theoretically speaking :)

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote: Soloing can definitely be a shirt-off/shirt-on thing. Soloing over other parties is a shirt-off sort of thing, and soloing a completely independent line, or preferably, away from others altogether is a shirt-on sort of thing.

Hilarious! NSFOD is speaking English--MP dialect. Anthropologists and linguists could have a field day...literally!

JulianM, well said! Btw, what's your shirt status?

Ken Cangi wrote:Shawn, I don't really want to get into a drawn out discussion about soloing etiquette, so I'll leave it at this: As someone who did quite a bit of soloing on the Front Range, I can tell you that traffic is a normal part of the game, and soloists don't always have the option to just move out of the way or climb twenty feet to the right or left. The beginners were tied in and apparently in no danger from the soloist, so there was no problem. Being nervous is a normal part of climbing, and they need to get used to dealing with things like this at some point, anyway. I feel that too much theory gets thrown around on these sites, by people with not enough real-life experience to make rational judgments about particular situations. My problem with that is that other inexperienced climbers - who look to these site as educational references - adopt these judgments and theoretical principles because they don't know any better and get caught up in the online banter. New climbers need to understand that this type of encounter is a normal part of the sport. Regardless of whether you agree with the soloist, when you are roped in, and they are not, it is best to give them the right-of-way, because the alternative could be quite ugly.

So Ken you have done a bit of soloing on the front range, With that being said you know it is very much possible to move 20-30-50-100 feet up, down, left, right, and diagonally on the flat irons at just about any given time if assuming you truly are experienced enough to solo the flat irons.

Secondly I guess you are implying that I might be one of the less experienced theorist with no real-life experience and is on this site throwing around bad information for beginners. Why is your Judgment or theoretical principle as you put it any better than mine. It seems you have some experience because you like to tell us about it, so with that being said you also seem to be in favor of educating new climbers because of what you suggest they "need" to understand in your previous post.

Are you saying that I posted bad info and bad advice for new climbers? Are you suggesting that the message to new climbers who are on this site trying to sort out the banter from meaningful info that what you "need" to know is that it is ok to solo under folks as long as you are ok with it. Is that your message to newbies that might go solo a route. I agree that you can do whatever you want, but I would definitely not suggest it or encourage it.

I don't tell anyone to do anything and too each his own, we can all choose our own actions and live with the consequences. Or sue someone for our own actions, Just Joking about the suing! Isn't that what makes America almost a free country, that and the fact that I can now choose to buy beer from a liquor store on Sundays in Colorado. I'm free!

So the next time you solo past someone, the advice you suggest to the newbie is give them the right of way because the alternative may be quite ugly. I have been in this situation more than once and I can tell you that newbies do get nervous as you suggest because that is part of the experience, so remember that those nervous folks don't move very well and move even more anxiously when nervous around the cool guy who is stepping over them. So you can choose your medicine, I will most definitely use caution when you crawl over me, but I can not guarantee that my nervous newbies will be as casual and precise when nervous because of the situation Cool Guy created.

PS. I love the shirt off and on reference

I used to solo quite a bit--both free and roped. The main reason I stopped is because I find climbing to be more meaningful when you share the adventure with a partner.

youtube.com/watch?v=lwCyM84…

This is an interesting take on a different socio-envrionmental approach to solo climbing. What is normal by mine or your standards is often completely irrelevent to other groups. These variations can occur within the same group as well when the individuals implant themselves into a different arena as well. Look at Alpine climbing for instance. I've seen many folks who wouldn't think of solo climbing in local crags for reasons of "safety" and "personal dislike for hanging their asses out there like that". However, I've seen these same folks solo gully routes for nearly a thousand feet. What makes the difference psychologically for these folks? The terrain they're soloing in the mountains isn't neccessarily more or less dangerous than what they climb relaxed and for fun at the crags.

I understand soloists making one nervous when they're out with inexperienced climbers. It does set an example that's hard to explain. More so, due to our concepts of the value of life and and other societal and personal precepts about public, interpersonal, and social obligations, we don't want to be reqired(morally or otherwise), to help others who've acheived a predicament which we envision as a possible forgone conclussion of their actions. Few people run into a burning building to save the pyro-maniac who set it on fire.

Jake

I solo in Eldo quite a bit. I always pick routes that have no one on them and if I do climb a route with other parties, I try and time it so I catch them on a belay ledge. I would never pass someone/crawl over them while they are climbing because I would feel like a total jackass for doing it.

JPVallone wrote: So Ken you have done a bit of soloing on the front range, With that being said you know it is very much possible to move 20-30-50-100 feet up, down, left, right, and diagonally on the flat irons at just about any given time if assuming you truly are experienced enough to solo the flat irons. Secondly I guess you are implying that I might be one of the less experienced theorist with no real-life experience and is on this site throwing around bad information for beginners. Why is your Judgment or theoretical principle as you put it any better than mine. It seems you have some experience because you like to tell us about it, so with that being said you also seem to be in favor of educating new climbers because of what you suggest they "need" to understand in your previous post. Are you saying that I posted bad info and bad advice for new climbers? Are you suggesting that the message to new climbers who are on this site trying to sort out the banter from meaningful info that what you "need" to know is that it is ok to solo under folks as long as you are ok with it. Is that your message to newbies that might go solo a route. I agree that you can do whatever you want, but I would definitely not suggest it or encourage it. I don't tell anyone to do anything and too each his own, we can all choose our own actions and live with the consequences. Or sue someone for our own actions, Just Joking about the suing! Isn't that what makes America almost a free country, that and the fact that I can now choose to buy beer from a liquor store on Sundays in Colorado. I'm free! So the next time you solo past someone, the advice you suggest to the newbie is give them the right of way because the alternative may be quite ugly. I have been in this situation more than once and I can tell you that newbies do get nervous as you suggest because that is part of the experience, so remember that those nervous folks don't move very well and move even more anxiously when nervous around the cool guy who is stepping over them. So you can choose your medicine, I will most definitely use caution when you crawl over me, but I can not guarantee that my nervous newbies will be as casual and precise when nervous because of the situation Cool Guy created. PS. I love the shirt off and on reference

It's true that most of the low-angle Flatiron slabs offer numerous paths of little resistance. My comment included a broader scope of the issue that you raised. Moreover, it is possible that the soloist wasn't using his best judgment. I don't know because I wasn't there. The problem here, however, isn't with the soloist; it is with your bad attitude and smart ass comments about the situation and anyone, myself included, who doesn't sympathize with you. I don't know who pissed in your Wheaties, but get over it. Your sarcasm doesn't inspire serious discussion. It just makes you look like an asshole.

Stop trying to convince us that you are upset because of your fear for his safety. If he wasn't concerned, why are you? I suspect that something else happened and is driving your resentment.

You clearly don't have as much experience as you would like us to believe, because you would never rant in this fashion if you did. Professional instructors get paid to teach their students how to safely deal with everyday situations like the one that you mentioned. They don't come onto MP to cry about soloists on the Flatirons.

You get him Ken!
I don't think JP is worried about other people coming to harm so much as he's worried about A. being put out by anothers actions or B. deep seated feelings of ineptitude which bring doubt into the concious realm as to weather he could effectively respond/act in the situation he'd put himself and his inexperienced partners.

Just a thought
Jake

Jared Workman wrote: Professional rescuers as well as unprofessional ones as well as people involved in causing accidents have been known to suffer some pretty serious PTSD when involved in fatal accidents. The guy who I got my WFR from started tearing up when talking about recovering the body of a young girl after a tumble down the first. This was apparently years ago and enough to send a guy you wouldn't expect it from, to counseling. Solo away but you are going to screw someone up pretty badly if your actions result in your death around them. I give you guys right of way and hope never to watch one of you take the tumble. I think general consideration for everyone around you on is warranted. My own tact is to stop what I'm doing until a soloist passes but over the ropes of absolute beginners then that's bad form IMHO.

Jared,

In all earnest, anyone who runs the risk of PTSD from witnessing a fatal climbing accident should seriously consider changing their recreation. Fatal accidents are an inherent part of the game. More people die roped than unroped. I have seen more than a few bodybags leave climbing areas. It's just part of the game.