Problems TRing with Silent Partner

I just got a Silent Partner so I could run laps on top rope. I've tried the thing twice but I am having problems with it. The clove hitch keeps getting too tight and the rope won't feed. I've tried two different ropes. I am woundering if anybody else has had this problem. If you have and you were able to fix it please send me some suggestions.

Zach

I'm looking forward to seeing the answers to this question as I've tried the same thing with my Silent Partner and had the same problems. The only way I could get it to feed at all was to have the slack end of the rope weighted so heavily that it might as well have been anchored. (maybe that's the answer!)

JL

That is funny because I tried the same thing. It was horrible! It was like climbing with 40 extra pounds.

Does the soloist work better for TRing?

mini traxion works great for top roping although it is technically not rated for it, I just got a soloist for leading, but probably won't get a chance to try it out for a couple weeks

The Soloist sucks for following pitches but it is great for leading as I am sure the Silent Partner is too. I have had good success leading with my Rock Exotica Soloist and then following all of my pitches with a Petzl Basic ascender for over ten years now. This set-up works great. It is hands free and it is designed for use that way. Just follow the instructions that come with it. There are two different ways to configure the Petzl basic for top-roping. Give it a whirl. Alan-

Thanks Greg! I was looking at the spec sheet myself last night. It's strange they don't advertise it to be used as a self belay device but there certainly inctructions on how to set it up to work that way. I was reading that thread on the Taco and I might do the Croll plus Microsender setup which some woman in Vegas was using. Any thoughts on that setup?

I am guessing Zach that you would have the same problem leading because you are misfeeding the clove hitch on the Silent Partner. If the "knot" side of the clove is facing down when you set it up on the SP it will give you hell no matter what rope you use. The loops of the clove need to face the crossbar and the crossed rope needs to rest on the top by where it attaches to your harness.

Personally I use the Silent Partner for leading and a minitraxion for following/TRing. On the mini, use a loop of shock cord girth hitched through the device then over your neck to keep it up by your chest to minimize slack in the system. Tie backup knots that you leave hanging on the rope.

This system is the best I have used for TR soloing, and I do believe that Petzl rates the minitraxion for this application. Climbing had a gear review of the minitrax as a solo TR device a while ago, I doubt they would have done that without something backing it up from Petzl.

I have the SP and the Soloist. In my experience (which is fairly extensive), neither of these devices will feed rope effortlessly like you'd think when you buy them. There are tricks you will learn that will help, but sometimes the only solution is just to pull rope through the device manually, or have to strain mightily against the device to get slack.

But to your point: I end up having to use a free hand to pull the rope through the SP when TRing. I have to do the same thing with the Soloist. So, might as well use the SP because it will catch an upside down fall. But, always remember to tie back up knots in the rope.

When you start leading with the SP, you'll begin to understand why TRing with it sucks. Smooth movement of the rope through the SP requires tension against the anchored end. But you have to tie in back up knots in the free end to be safe. But you can't just tie a bunch in advance though, like you can with the Soloist because the weight of the free end dangling down will keep the rope from feeding smoothly through the SP. So, you'll have to pull up multiple loops of slack and clip them in to your harness. It's a big cluster just waiting to get caught on flakes, and it will, and you will at some point have to downclimb to free them. Welcome to rope soloing.

So, when you are TRing with an SP, it's not going to work well unless it has something to pull against, i.e. as someone said, you anchor the end of the rope at the bottom of the climb. But, when you do that, you still have a problem, because you have to have a lot of play in the other end of the rope. But, since it's fixed at the top of the climb, you can't really get that going either. So, you are screwed. The only solution is to keep the free end unanchored, and pull slack through manually as needed. Plus, if you are serious about being safe, you have to still tie back up knots in the free end - at least one to prevent a ground fall, so at some point you are going to have to have a hand free to do this, and you can't have the free end anchored after all.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as "hands free" rope soling.

The trick with keeping the silent partner ( or any solo device) running smoothly on a rope is to manage your slack. It is all about balancing the weight of the rope on both sides of the device and any time you have a big discrepancy you are going to have rope drag issues. Once you figure out this balance you can climb very freely, if not more freely then when being belayed. You can stretch out every pitch to the end of your rope with zero rope drag, but it takes years of practice to reach that point. Some people swear by using a rope bag on the back to manage the rope issues. Personally I climb with a single loop to a clove on a locker backup and the end of the rope untied.

The interesting thing about rope soloing is that every serious soloist seems to have a different system that they will swear is the best. I think the best idea is to try a few and see what suits you best.

I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that rope solo leading would be "hands free". It's far from it. However, following or 'top-roping' can come pretty close to hands-free with the system I use. At times I do occasionally throw an overhand knot in the rope as a back up and just let it hang down. Even if the cam fails on the ascender, the back-up knot will not be able to get through that tiny hole on the Petzl basic. Other devices like the Gri-Gri or even the Mini-Traxion have a concerning potential to separate at the rivets as a knot is forced between the two sides in a bad fall so I feel that these sorts of devices need to be backed up differently because of the way they are put together. They are of course great in their own way.

Kevin S. said it best. Everyone has their own best system. I really enjoy rope soloing and I always appreciate hearing different ideas concerning how to go about it. It is a great way to pick up a few new tricks. Alan-

That's for sure. That rig is a thing of beauty! Simple and strong! Perfect for the task! And ya I do like to solo long multi pitch routes and walls best of all, so the "back-up" context is a bit different than for top-roping some laps a the local crag which is fun too. I read a rope soloing thread a while back on Super Topo I think where they discussed some device being blown apart by a back-up knot being forced through it. I don't even think it was while soloing but rather while belaying with some auto locking device. This was a scenerio I had not previously thought of. It seems relevant and important for the discussion of following pitches on a fixed rope so I thought I should include the information. Alan-

Got a couple of friends that use the SP. I use a Soloist, and based on what my buddies tell me, I'm not planning on switching. One advantage to the soloist is that it can be locked off manually to suss out a tough move whether on TR or lead. If I might take a bad fall, I tie a backup knot on the anchor side of the device and clip a 'biner through the loop and back to the rope, so it can't come untied. In practice though, it takes a REALLY backwards and head down fall to make the cam release.

As for TR feeding, if you clip something like a water bottle, or your approach shoes to the free end of the rope it will be just enough weight to make the Soloist self feed without significantly affecting your movement. I do this all the time, and just two days ago used this technique to TR solo The Northcutt Start (5.10 c/d) without ever feeding the device.

I guess I should have just said: Lose the SP and get a Soloist. Cheaper, smaller, simpler mechanism, more versatile, and it sounds JUST LIKE a cow bell when it's dangling from your harness on the walkoff. (And who doesn't need more cow bell?)

Oops. Should have said, "backup knot on FREE SIDE of device"... My bad.

saxfiend wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing the answers to this question as I've tried the same thing with my Silent Partner and had the same problems. The only way I could get it to feed at all was to have the slack end of the rope weighted so heavily that it might as well have been anchored. (maybe that's the answer!) JL

Hello.

Have you tried attaching some weight to the bottom of the rope? Your backpack can be good.

That would keep the rope(s) in a light tension, thus allowing OTHERS mechanism for top-roping self-feeding with no hassle. I'm sure about the PETZL SHUNT.

Don't know if that can work the same well for the SP, but if you both have the chance to have a try, it would be nice to know if and how it worked. I'm pretty convinced it will.

Best regards.