communication....so key

So i was thinking why not us a two way radio with a headset? Has anyone tried this? There seems to be the technology out there but we still yell and hope our partner can hear us.

talk to me...haha

My buddy and I have talked about doing this for years, especially in Eldo where the pitches are often circuitous and the wind (and river, if you're down low) can make communication all but impossible. But, alas, we've never done it.

Many years ago, someone used to sell a rope that had a wire running through it that would connect two headset devices on either end. I'm guessing it's obsolete in this day and age, but has anyone ever seen one of those in action?

I have never used walkie talkies at Eldo. However on big walls in Yosemite when you are hauling and jugging they are a god send and a great time saver, especially in the wind. When in Eldo - lumpy on multi pitch I use the old three tugs "I am safe - take me off belay" then three tugs "You are on belay - start climbing when ready" method if the weather is prohibiting verbal contact.

When in the valley I have a big wall harness and wrap the unit in plastic and attach it the shoulder sling of my harness close to my mouth. That way you just tilt your head over, push the talk button and speak. The plastic cover keeps rain and debris away. Will never do a wall in the valley without these again.

I've got a couple of Motorola two-way radios that have a hands-free mode that I have tried a couple of times. Instead of pushing a button, a loud noise will automatically start a transmission. I attached a radio to my shoulder sling with an elastic band.
2 problems:
1. There is a threshold volume that you can set, but it's difficult to tweak it to screen out normal climbing noise (especially if you do much grunting.) -Pretty annoying to the belayer.
2. It drains the batteries much quicker in that mode.

Spiro,

I have a lot of experience with radios (its part of my job) and I can tell you that the quality of today's units varies wildly and usually is dependant on price. Headsets are ok but it really is a better option to clip the radio somewhere close to your face using a packstrap or piece of clothing and key the mike with your hands.

I have used some very good and expensive radios for climbing but the really good ones are usually heavy; it seems the battery technology hasn't caught up to the current standard.

So mostly I shout or tug.

this is exactly why better comm. is needed. I am going to buy a light pair of radios...

There will be situations where a radio will be the best way to comm.

Clearly the radio thing probably works better than anything else, but I've never done it just cause I don't want to bring one more thing.

The 3 tugs system works, usually, unless there's a lot of rope drag.

I've used the same system as Nick Stayner, but instead of the whole "wait one minute" thing, I'll just belay all the slack through. When the rope comes taught, use 3 tugs. If the belayer feels the 3 tugs, great. If they don't, their still on belay anyway. They should get the hint because they're feeding out slack with a definite rhythm while I'm pulling it in.

Yes, it's a total pain in the ass to belay through all of the rope, but if you're running long pitches (where communication is going to be harder), there's probably not too much to reel through. I only do it when I think communication is going to be an issue.

Cheers,
Nate

Radios are like most other types of gear, they have their place. I wouldn't take a wall hammer up a classic sport route and I don't usually leave my Moccasins at home when I go ice climbing.

When I lived in Atlanta, GA and spent most of my time hanging on the bolts at Foster Falls, I did not own radios. Now I live in NY and I usually climb at the Gunks.

Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. If I'm with a partner I don't know, or who is inexperienced I tend to hike them in. There are routes where the wind is often loud or you can get a lot of noise coming up from the highway several hundred feet below. When people spend the day racing their motorcycles through the pass, radios are a god send. If I'm with a partner I know and I know we aren't going to do long link-ups, I don't bother.

I once watched a married couple spend an hour on a classic 5.6 Gunks route called Disneyland. The husband climbed to the top and probably spent the next month sleeping with the dog. He set up a belay under a large roof on a ledge. This obvious looking spot is probably the worst place on the route to put a belay. When the lead climber gets to the top, the belayer is going to REALLY struggle hearing him because of the shape of the rock, the path the route follows to the top, and the ambient noise of the area. Other climbers in the area really did try to help them communicate but relayed messages only added to the confusion.

Two radios would have eliminated the problem. When I think communication is going to be a real challenge, I sometimes use radios but they are certainly not for everyone and they are not for every situation.

P.S. Jed, I hate to sound like the PC Police but could you find a way of making your point without making fun of people? This social worker has heard it all before, but I still have sensitive eyes.

Russ Walling wrote: I've used cryptic made up hand signals including the universal sign of cutting my own throat to actually get a partner to completely untie from the rope at a hanging belay while she was in a waterfall..... so I could use the entire rope to retreat from a full pitch above her.

Not just a waterfall but a hailstorm. In that particular case had there been no visual it would have been a very long & cold afternoon.

That said, the use of radios are highly effective but rarely use them. I hate all the superfluous crap on my harness which is probably why my toes are jacked (I don't haul shoes either).

The start of this thread brought up the question of earphones. Interesting idea except you'd still have to cue the mic somehow which is part of the hassle.

In times past, we've carried radios and only used them when "yell net" didn't work.

susan peplow wrote:Interesting idea except you'd still have to cue the mic somehow which is part of the hassle.

The ideal unit would be a radio as small as an iPod Shuffle with a Bluetooth earpiece. Leash the earpiece, and you would be in business.

I tried the ear piece with voice activated mics and was disappointed. The wires were a real pain in the butt and VOX works only so good in an inexpensive radio. Now a Bluetooth throat mic would be great--even a wire throat mic made for FRS. Now we're talking!

Nick Stayner wrote:Russ, I know you're right. There are definitely eventualities that can mess up my idea. But I think radios wouldn't prevent those situations from happening, they would just expedite the decision-making process. Which is great. Last summer, I'd just finished a pitch and was about halfway through pulling up the slack. I was out of hearing range with my partner. The rope got stuck on something. I finally wound up using the slack to rap down... thankfully I could rap far enough to clean the snag. I (and, as I later found out, my partner) wanked around for a really long time trying to figure out what was going on. I can only imagine how much more effecient the whole process would've been with radios.

had a similar situation occur a couple of winters ago, climbing GWI in LCC with a new partner who was mostly competent on ice. Trying to shout down from the top of the exit pitch to the belay is nigh on impossible, compounded by the fact that between pulling up the un-used half of the rope and pulling the slack out of the one she would be climbing on, the rope became frozen in the ice!

On belay, tension felt at my end, but no movement on her end. WTF! Eventually she got wise and pulled the slack back to her enough to break the rope free, but waiting for her to figure that part out was a long cold wait. What I wouldn't have given for radios that night!

Climbing ice with my regular partner the belay swap-over has become second nature. One rope gets pulled up rapidly till tension is on it, then slack is lowered down, repeating enough to make it obvious that it wasn't a clip attempt or a fall. Belay comes off, a tug is give from below, that cord is pulled completely up to the top belay. The other cord is then pulled to tension, a little slack is given while belay is put on, then tensioned again, meaning it's good to climb.

The system is probably used by many, but modified slightly for long summer rock routes. The real issue is when the leader encounters problems out of comm range that are difficult to decipher by reading the rope. Short of a fall (which should be somewhat obvious, what with unrelenting tension on the rope), we just have to trust each other to be able to deal with the problems a leader might encounter while on the sharp end, or retreat to the belay. THAT, I'm finding, is one of the best things about having a great partner.