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Self-rescue techniques

Original Post
Edward Burin des Roziers · · France · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 80

I'd like to know more self-rescue techniques than I already do. I've practiced escaping the belay, prussiking up a rope, and rapping with an injured climber. But I wouldn't know how to handle certain situations. For example, what do you do when you're four pitches up, the leader is more than half a rope length up and takes a nasty fall that leaves him out cold? Any good self-rescue books out there? I've been looking at getting David Fasulo's Self-Rescue book. Thanks for your feedback.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

Yes, basically a good one to start is that.

I've also favored the Mountaineers selection:
Get Luebben's basic skill sets book. Ogden's wall book. There's also a self-rescue focused book (I forget the authors).

I think the mule to munter-mule is the way to go; but learn them all & see what you can do most proficiently.

Go with a guide/self & buddy rescue program & learn.

Practice & figure out what you have the ability to do & not, and what the gear will do for you; and where medical situations come in play & when an EMS response is needed.

More practice

Jordan Ramey · · Calgary, Alberta · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 4,251

I have the Fasulo book and agree it's a great place to start. Lots of pictures and it's pretty straightforward. Not exhaustive, but good enough to give you the base you need to figure out most situations. Acutally performing the tasks with a weighted line is much much different and good practice.

Edward Burin des Roziers · · France · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 80

Adam: "Oh that happens all the time.. Not!"

Yes, thankfully this doesn't happen every time I climb! (it's never happened to me.) But I'd like to have the know-how to get myself out of stuff like this and other, possibly more likely situations. More than likely I'd be in a place where yelling would get someone's attention but I could at least start taking steps in the right direction before the cavalry shows up.
Thanks for the input. Time to start practicing the basics.

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

Other than learning actual rescue mechanics, don't forget to add a Wilderness First Aid course to your repertoire! What are you going to do in the (quite probable) multitude of hours before SAR or other emergency personnel arrive for yourself or your partner? Not to mention that WFA teaches you things you need to know that urban First Aid does not (like how to move and physically assess someone where spine trauma is uncertain... Normal first aid teaches you to "never" move anyone and rarely to touch them in this circumstance, but that don't fly when help is a lot longer than 30 minutes away).

Sadly I was involved in a fatal rescue once, but luckily I had pretty good emergency medical skills under my belt (including CPR, which I did have to employ), but most of the climbers present didn't, so make sure to take a course like that sometime soon!

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

I'm not advocating not using CPR, but it does have substantial limitations in the backcountry. The big point I see is that CPR does not restart a heart rhythm; & more than not, this is a result from a trauma related incident. I guess if one of the climber M.D.s has a better thought, I'm all ears (er - eyes); but there may be nothing to gain even if everyone at the belay anchor has their card.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

Jason, I hear ya. Some WFA programs around CO are/have been revamped to include lecture & field training; though not nearly as involved as WFR.

Anything does help though. Doing nothing about educating yourself is probably the worst decision.

slobmonster · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 0

At times I think we need to re-consider "self rescue" through different lenses. Though learning the pure technical skills necessary to wiggle out of a nasty scenario (e.g. described above) is of value, don't neglect the skills necessary to avoid such things from happening.

Another way of looking at it: you can train all you want to be a better and quicker shoveler, but being in the path of an avalanche is the original --and perhaps primary-- problem.

(BTW and on-topic, getting out of a jam in which the leader whips with more than half the rope out is funky, and a bit involved, but you already have the basics.)

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

Of course I would rather take Wilderness First Responder, but unless someone is willing to pay me for a week off from work and the $600+ fee for the course, I think WFA is a pretty damn good substitute for 2 days and $150.

Having been through an actual wilderness rescue, I think I have a pretty good idea whether or not it's useless. (Although I certainly did not learn most of my skills through such a class, it alerted me to some things that could have been done differently that day, although no outcome would have changed.) So as for "teaching nothing useful," I totally disagree. Since most people are never going to become WFR anyway, then I would certainly like my partner(s) to at least have had WFA if nothing else. The WFA I took taught many valuable things, including the ability to move a person, chunk check, impromptu splint at the same level of WFR, and test for cervical spine injury, among other things. They may not provide in-depth rescue scenario practice, but I guarantee that people walking out of the class could make a lot better decisions and judgments than people walking out of no class.

And btw, they do teach CPR in WFR classes; hmm, I wonder why. But if you really think about, it rarely saves lives even when performed in urban situations, so I guess there is little to gain practicing it anywhere, eh? But I for one felt it was worthwhile that I at least ATTEMPTED to do something to save someone with CPR than say, "Well, you know, it's unlikely to keep him alive so why bother."

Most MDs aren't really qualified to give advice on emergency medicine unless that is what they actually practice. Or so was the opinion of a friend who is a doc herself.

Mike Howard · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 3,650
Edward Burin des Roziers wrote: Any good self-rescue books out there? I've been looking at getting David Fasulo's Self-Rescue book. Thanks for your feedback.
Climbing Self Rescue: Improvising Solutions for Serious Situations (Mountaineers Outdoor Expert) by Andy Tyson and Molly Loomis. This book is excellent. I couldn't believe I hadn't heard of it and that my good for nuthin' partners hadn't read it. Excellent resource, but any professional climbing guide will tell you that you lose it if you don't use it. Practice.

amazon.com/Climbing-Self-Re…
Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

Mike Morley, to clarify what I said:

Actually, I have a lot more training in certain areas of emergency medicine than a 16 hour course, but that is just a side note.

A friend of mine who is an M.D. stated (after this situation happened to me) that because she is a climber AND a doctor, people always say to her, "Oh, you should go volunteer for SAR! They could really use someone like you." Then she stated, "But I'm not trained in emergency medicine, why do they think I would have all this knowledge of what to do? I see snotty noses and such things all day. You are probably more prepared about what to do than I would be."

So, whether or not I am more qualified wasn't actually an assessment I personally was making (or still make)--my point was that most doctors aren't highly trained in emergency medicine unless that is what they actually practice, so they may not be as adept at doing all the right procedures as everyone assumes, although certainly I think most docs generally would be more adept than your average climber out there.

Another partner of mine is also an M.D., I can ask his opinion as well if you like.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

I'm sorry I kinda help push us into a medical tangent also.

Climbers & medical pros need to compliment in order to make backcountry technical rescue work & work within adequate safety systems; whether it be imparting knowledge or dealing with a situation on the wall.

I'm a big fan of getting the vertical buddy evac moving as soon as possible, but I also believe there are a lot of situations that need medical experience & medical support. Let's not kid ourselves about how serious trauma can be.

I think some fair questions we should ask of ourselves as climbers:

How can we prepare ourselves before we seek adventure?
When something happens, are we safe & how can we get safe?
What can we do not to cause further harm to our friend?
In what we decide, are we within an acceptable level of risk?

Edward Burin des Roziers · · France · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 80
Seth Green wrote:At times I think we need to re-consider "self rescue" through different lenses. Though learning the pure technical skills necessary to wiggle out of a nasty scenario (e.g. described above) is of value, don't neglect the skills necessary to avoid such things from happening.
Seth, I agree with this in principle, but there are many uncontrollable factors to climbing (ie rock fall) that could get even the most experienced climbers in trouble. I can understand the importance of choosing a route that's right for you, having the skills to place good pro, recognizing when not to fall, etc. What kind of other skills should I be thinking about to avoid bad situations?

I've not yet taken any first aid classes beyond listening to a 2 hour presentation on basic first aid, which probably won't do me any good in the field beyond slapping on a bandaid. But I am seriously considering taking a more involved course like WFR. I'd be curious to find out how many climbers have had some type of aid training. Probably not the majority, I'm guessing.

I think Mark got to the questions behind my question with these:
"How can we prepare ourselves before we seek adventure?
When something happens, are we safe & how can we get safe?"

On a side note, I'm fumbling around alot tying the mule knot while the rope is weighted. I'm keeping my break hand close to the belay device and trying to tie the knot with my other hand only, and releasing the break hand once the knot is finished. But tying this knot with one hand is hard. Does it just come with practice or can you use your break hand sometime before the knot is finished?
slobmonster · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 0

Whether a Mule knot on a Munter or an ATC, consider "pinching" the brake, i.e. at the device/hitch, with your nondominant hand, and tying the Mule with your dominant hand. Takes some practice but with live weight it's not very hard to keep from slipping.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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